Anybody else about to move on?

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I respect the GT500 but I'd get a 302 LS over it also. That is much more my type of car

I'd take a 3/4 scale Boss 302. I really appreciate what Ford has done with the Boss, but I struggle to rationalize its size.



Back to the topic [I know, !!]

Just hypothetically speaking, IF I decided to discount the FR-S/BRZ as my next option, I'd really struggle to find something in the new-car lots. I like the special edition Miata [white w/black top please]. I'd also like to drive the upcoming 500 Abarth, but unless it's a huge change from the 500 Sport, I'd be merely amused, not enthralled. I'd also take a look at the upcoming Veloster Turbo; it seems to have all the right bits ignoring wrong wheel drive. I'm not willing to buy a new Porsche Cayman or Boxster, as their value retention is among the worst of all cars. Ditto the Lotus Evora, and honestly I can't picture myself thrashing an Evora through the salty winters here in MI. I could dig a Corvette Coupe if they would drop the awful Cobalt steering wheel.

That brings me back to the Miata. Which unfortunately is just a bit too impractical for my occasional trip-to-a-supplier work needs.

The used market is big and open, but I'm pretty comfy with my current DD to not really pursue anything used. I've always been amused by the 1st gen Honda Insight. I drove one when they first came out and was amused with the uncompromised attitude towards efficiency. That would end up being just a toy sorta thing.

[bneale]

Originally Posted by MrVito

I broke down and got my deposit back this week. I NEED a new car to dd. I kept looking at the FRS/BRZ and finally came to the conclusion that IF I'm going to buy a brand new car, I'm going to want leather, heated seats, etc, since I'd be driving it a lot, might as well be comfortable. Thinking about what a loaded BRZ would run made me look at other, similarly priced options. In Atlanta you can get a 2012 Mustang GT for $25,500, or a GT Premium for $29,900 with 0% financing. That kind of deal is starting to look REALLY good.

I wonder, if all you really care about is heated seats and leather, why are you even looking at a Mustang GT?

Why not simply buy something like a Ford Fiesta? 40 MPG and it has both leather and heated seats. Plus you'll end up saving like 12K - 15K over the Mustang.

I honestly don't think the BRZ/FR-S is the car for you if your main concerns are how comfortable the car is. You should look at the mantra Toyota is pushing with "bring passion back to the people". This car is light weight low HP RWD goodness. It's about having a ton of fun while still remaining affordable. Adding on leather and accessories like heated seats goes against the mantra of being light weight.

I still don't get why people think Mustangs are amazing cars. Their live rear axel is technology over 30 years old and doesn't make for great handling cars. Which is exactly what the BRZ/FR-S is supposded to be about.

bneale

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by bneale

I wonder, if all you really care about is heated seats and leather, why are you even looking at a Mustang GT?

Why not simply buy something like a Ford Fiesta? 40 MPG and it has both leather and heated seats. Plus you'll end up saving like 12K - 15K over the Mustang.

I honestly don't think the BRZ/FR-S is the car for you if your main concerns are how comfortable the car is. You should look at the mantra Toyota is pushing with "bring passion back to the people". This car is light weight low HP RWD goodness. It's about having a ton of fun while still remaining affordable. Adding on leather and accessories like heated seats goes against the mantra of being light weight.

I still don't get why people think Mustangs are amazing cars. Their live rear axel is technology over 30 years old and doesn't make for great handling cars. Which is exactly what the BRZ/FR-S is supposded to be about.

bneale

You could say the same about the frs suspension.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by bneale

I still don't get why people think Mustangs are amazing cars. Their live rear axel is technology over 30 years old and doesn't make for great handling cars. Which is exactly what the BRZ/FR-S is supposded to be about.

bneale

That's a rather short sighted and naive comment. Live axles are perfectly reliable, inexpensive, and effective solutions....especially for the target [straight-line emphasis] demographic that frequents muscle cars. Nevertheless, Ford has managed to tweak the Mustang into a legit racetrack monster. HPDE and track-day regulars can back that up; a well-prepped and well-driven Mustang can make haste with respect.

Originally Posted by fatoni

You could say the same about the frs suspension.

Well said. The moral of the story here is: It's not the ingredients, it's the chef.

[bneale]

Originally Posted by fatoni

You could say the same about the frs suspension.

I thought the FR-S was double wishbone rear suspension? Is it not? Did I miss something here?

bneale

[bneale]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

That's a rather short sighted and naive comment. Live axles are perfectly reliable, inexpensive, and effective solutions....especially for the target [straight-line emphasis] demographic that frequents muscle cars. Nevertheless, Ford has managed to tweak the Mustang into a legit racetrack monster. HPDE and track-day regulars can back that up; a well-prepped and well-driven Mustang can make haste with respect.

I completely agree with you about them being reliable, inexpensive, and effective solutions for a straight line car. And I also agree with you that Ford and other tuning companies have made successful track day cars. I guess I should also say that I do understand the appeal of the Mustang as well as its place in the market. Make no mistake, I do respect it as a car.

But you don't exactly see many BMW M3's with live rear axels. What about a Lotus Elise? It just not ideal when you have other suspension configurations to choose from when building a great handling car. It may be cheaper to build cars like this, but then what's the priorities when building the car? Cheapness first or handling? I think they choose to keep the Mustang cheap and with the BRZ/FR-S, they chose handling first and then cheap.

My point originally was why buy a BRZ/FR-S if all the guy cares about is leather seats and warming his butt? To me, the BRZ/FR-S is about handling and having fun. Why else would they try so hard to get the center of gravity so low and keep the weight down? I don't see them doing this with the Mustang (except maybe the Boss 302 or Roush Mustangs). So I didn't understand how he could go from buying a BRZ/FR-S to a Mustang. Where are his priorities at??

I respect the Mustang for what it is. In fact, I'd go far enough to say that if Ford had switched to a better rear end setup, I'd probably lust after one. I love the current styling but know that there are better handling cars out there and thats why I want a BRZ/FR-S.

I plan on Autocrossing my car and the last time I was out at an Autocross, the Mustangs were having a hard time keeping the back ends planted.

bneale

[yjbeach]

If you are considering a mustang, I would suggest dropping the coin and renting one for a long weekend. While in Miami and the Keys for Christmas I rented a convertible mustang (base model convertible), very nice blue color, black top and interior.

While any convertible is nice to have in Miami during the 80 degree winters; that was the only postive thing I had to say about the car. This was an automatic and it felt about as fast as my V6 Sonata. Step on the gas you hear a lot of engine noise and later the power comes on.

My girlfriend (who doesn't know much about cars) complained about the interior of the car and the low seating position (she is 5'7) of the passenger seat (unable to adjust, I tried), which created poor visability for the passenger.

As for the argument of buying new and used that is personal opinion. I prefer to buy used, usually someone has to a reason they sell a car early. And the price difference is well worth the wait. However, I do understand why people buy new and have supplied these links to make you think.

Buying Used:
http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...-used-car.aspx

Buying New:

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...00001&mrr=1.00

[Dave-ROR]

One of the fastest cars at the local events here is a Mustang. Sure I've seen plenty of GT500s that can't keep the ass planted in an autocross, but the more reasonable ones I see mixed results, those who know how to set them up are fast, and those who don't are slow.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by bneale

I thought the FR-S was double wishbone rear suspension? Is it not? Did I miss something here?

bneale

i was referring to the macphersons sup front. the point is that the mustang handles well based on how it handles. thats the only way to measure that. you cant say it handles poorly because it has a solid rear or that f1s are slow because they have a 2.4 na motor

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by bneale

I thought the FR-S was double wishbone rear suspension? Is it not? Did I miss something here?

bneale

He's talking about mac struts up front I think.

[Vasilis]

Originally Posted by Longhorn248

Now that's a proper troll, these other amateurs could learn from you.

I am not intending to troll. I am in Europe, the muscle cars you can get for so cheap cost 5 times the price here and are very rare

[Vasilis]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I'll tell you why Muscle cars don't get my attention. Styling and layout. I like low-slung sleek sports coupes with a low to the ground feeling and sport seats. A MC is big,chunky, and high riding vehicle with a boxy look. All of those reasons make it simple for me.

Ok I understand your point of view... As I said muscle cars are rarely seen here so they do attract me and other people here. I saw yesterday a Dodge Challenger (the new one) parked next to a 911 Turbo (the latest one I think?) and people were drooling over the Dodge, taking pictures and videos and everyone ignored the 911

It's funny in a way because from what I see a Camaro SS or Challenger are not very expensive in the US but here (at least here in Cyprus where I live) they're Audi R8 5.2FSI money (new) so obviously nobody really buys them/have to special order them from dealership.

[ChrisH]

Move?
Move to... what???
For me there is simply no real option available in the market.....

Actually after buying my last new car back in 2000 (BMW) I desperately wait for any new car, that is worth to replace my old one - but nothing!
Even my former favorite brand BMW just sells crap these days.
I have to say I got very, very frustrated over the last years....

And then, suddenly, I heard about the the GT 86 / BRZ back last July, when I accidentally came across the Pistonheads article about Moto-P's announcements - and got happy again!

You lucky guys in the US will get you FR-S or BRZ very soon. In contrast, in Germany the GT 86 is said to be available only next fall.
Maybe I will even order somewhat later to get the car in spring 2013 (instead of winter). So one more year to wait.
But you know what? That just doesn't matter anymore - because now there is light at the end of the tunnel


With regards to the missing details and data:
I am pretty sure, that there will be a surprise about the top speed:
200 hp, the excellent drag coefficient of 0.27 and the small frontal area simple won't fit with the current top speed values.
My guess is 245 km/h = 152 mph

[Vasilis]

Originally Posted by Guff

Oh. My. God. You're right.


Fuckit! I'm getting another Supra! That's a cheap muscle car...

I am unsure if you're being sarcastic since the Toyota Supra is an excellent car and also iconic...I haven't driven one but I've heard they handle great, they're very reliable + easy to maintain for the category they're in, can handle more and more power and their MPG is not half bad... Correct me If I'm wrong... The only reason I am not getting one at the moment is because we have ridiculous road tax for cars over 2500cc...

Originally Posted by old greg

He's not trolling, he's just being realistic. Buying a new car is a terrible financial decision, and by extension so is buying a brand new Zx6.

I am being realistic indeed. Buying a new car is a bad financial decision especially for a car that will not hold its value in any way. No matter how good it's going to be, the resale its going to plummet within 5 years....
Even an Audi TTRS that I was just looking at now, dropped to half it's price within 2 years and 15,500miles on the clock... (from $60,000 to $30,000).

Originally Posted by old greg

If someone isn't as enamored with the concept of "driving experience >> outright speed" as a lot of us are, Vasilis for example, then they'd be much better off buying something else.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

This car isn't about numbers, unlike your entire post

I'm addressing these together - If you noticed I own an RX8... Do you think I care about numbers or horsepower over driving experience?


All I'm saying you can either get an equally rewarding car or a better car overall (don't tell me you're comparing the GT86 to an RX7 FD or a Supra 6speed twin turbo or even a R33 Skyline) for LESS money... And these cars are also iconic.


I apologise for multiple posts, I just realised a way to quote everyone in one post



As much as I love the idea of a new RWD coupe coming out, if you're just looking for driving experience there's cheaper and better cars out there...
I am not raining on your parade, if you can afford it, if you think it's the right move for you by all means DO IT. You'll enjoy it I am sure...

But if you own anything else half decent, I'd wait...