SCCA Class Reshuffle

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The CR should be buried. It's expensive, rare, and you can't do a package conversion to a normal S2K to make it a CR. I think it'll be more competitive than people think in SS with street tires.

We have more than a few CR owners on this board... they can't be THAT rare.

[Turn in Concepts]

Unfortunate to see the camber allowance go. It would really have shaken things up a bit.

Tony

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

We have more than a few CR owners on this board... they can't be THAT rare.

1300 cars sold in that package. Fewer and fewer will be available as the years go on as people will hoard them as collectibles. It's not a car to class aggressively. Plus its silly to make a newer car that in its most competitive form doesn't have a stereo and AC for a class that is supposed to be for dual duty street cars.

[Simmons]

Originally Posted by Robbie

1300 cars sold in that package. Fewer and fewer will be available as the years go on as people will hoard them as collectibles. It's not a car to class aggressively. Plus its silly to make a newer car that in its most competitive form doesn't have a stereo and AC for a class that is supposed to be for dual duty street cars.

I agree, they probably shouldn't be aloud in STR either?


Simmons

[ViperASR]

Originally Posted by Robbie

1300 cars sold in that package. Fewer and fewer will be available as the years go on as people will hoard them as collectibles. It's not a car to class aggressively. Plus its silly to make a newer car that in its most competitive form doesn't have a stereo and AC for a class that is supposed to be for dual duty street cars.

599 were ever produced and sold in the US. A few have been exported, a lot have been crashed.
I don't think they should be buried in S-Street, but I think they should have a place to play where they are competitive, but not totally dominant as they are in B-Stock, which basically eliminated the hope of running a "cheap" s2000 and being competitive.

I don't mind them being in STR, plus, a CR hasn't actually won a national championship. An AP1 and a "body in the trunk" AP2 have won. I don't think there is as big a need for a CR in STR due to the allowable mods. This is coming from a "body in the trunk" AP2 STR owner.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Robbie

1300 cars sold in that package. Fewer and fewer will be available as the years go on as people will hoard them as collectibles. It's not a car to class aggressively. Plus its silly to make a newer car that in its most competitive form doesn't have a stereo and AC for a class that is supposed to be for dual duty street cars.

It's not just a package. The CRs are identifiable by VIN.

Originally Posted by ViperASR

599 were ever produced and sold in the US. A few have been exported, a lot have been crashed.
I don't think they should be buried in S-Street, but I think they should have a place to play where they are competitive, but not totally dominant as they are in B-Stock, which basically eliminated the hope of running a "cheap" s2000 and being competitive.

I don't mind them being in STR, plus, a CR hasn't actually won a national championship. An AP1 and a "body in the trunk" AP2 have won. I don't think there is as big a need for a CR in STR due to the allowable mods. This is coming from a "body in the trunk" AP2 STR owner.

Did not know you lurked here!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by ViperASR

599 were ever produced and sold in the US. A few have been exported, a lot have been crashed.
I don't think they should be buried in S-Street, but I think they should have a place to play where they are competitive, but not totally dominant as they are in B-Stock, which basically eliminated the hope of running a "cheap" s2000 and being competitive.

I don't mind them being in STR, plus, a CR hasn't actually won a national championship. An AP1 and a "body in the trunk" AP2 have won. I don't think there is as big a need for a CR in STR due to the allowable mods. This is coming from a "body in the trunk" AP2 STR owner.

Who forsaw in the beginning of STC (back when it was ST or STS, I can't remember) that the top dogs would be hunting down 88 chassis' because that was the only year of the Civic Si built in Japan and was lighter? Who's to say that in 5 years, people aren't hunting down CR's so that they can remove the stereos and AC and be 90 lbs lighter than an AP2 S2000 (quoting Car and Driver) in the same guise? Any weight reduction that can be done due to mods on the AP1 and 2 can be done on the CR.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's not just a package. The CRs are identifiable by VIN.

That doesn't matter for autocross. If I could swap over all of the changes from a CR to an AP2 it would be legal. Like how people buy 94 Miatas and buy the parts from Mazdaspeed to turn them into R packages to be competitive in ES. Since you can't do that for an S2000 to turn any 08 AP2 into a CR, its a big problem for class competitiveness.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That doesn't matter for autocross. If I could swap over all of the changes from a CR to an AP2 it would be legal. Like how people buy 94 Miatas and buy the parts from Mazdaspeed to turn them into R packages to be competitive in ES. Since you can't do that for an S2000 to turn any 08 AP2 into a CR, its a big problem for class competitiveness.

I hate saying this, but you gotta pay to play. If you got into competitive autox thinking it was cheap.... well... we both know it's not.

We all know that the person (or team) with the largest budget has the best shot at a win.

[ViperASR]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Did not know you lurked here!

I've driven both of the twins, one in RTR form (@Kido1987) and one in STX mode (@GTB/ZR-1) and have a lot of respect for them. The owner of the RTR car and I are discussing running his nationally in C-Street next year, so I've been keeping an eye out on the boards.

I have actually had both of them apart in my garage come to think of it....

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by Robbie

1300 cars sold in that package. Fewer and fewer will be available as the years go on as people will hoard them as collectibles. It's not a car to class aggressively. Plus its silly to make a newer car that in its most competitive form doesn't have a stereo and AC for a class that is supposed to be for dual duty street cars.

I don't think it is crazy that they moved the CR out of BS to allow the other S2000s to compete, I think it is crazy they put the CR in SS.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I hate saying this, but you gotta pay to play. If you got into competitive autox thinking it was cheap.... well... we both know it's not.

We all know that the person (or team) with the largest budget has the best shot at a win.

I'm not saying it should be cheap. But putting a rare/expensive package of a car out there in a position where it can dominate does not foster large competition, especially when you're talking about an S2000 which was popular before the CR was classed in stock.

And since you aren't an autocrosser, the stock class where S2000's compete have had less and less participation since the inception of the CR since it made the AP1 and AP2 obsolete. Not a good long term vision.

[CSG Mike]

I'm not an autocrosser, but I do keep up with what's going on in the AutoX world; I believe in educating myself in as many different aspects of driving as possible, and I'm fairly versed on what's happening. I have a lot of friends that are pretty hardcore about autoxing; it just never really interested me.

AS I can understand, but SS? Please.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm not saying it should be cheap. But putting a rare/expensive package of a car out there in a position where it can dominate does not foster large competition, especially when you're talking about an S2000 which was popular before the CR was classed in stock.

And since you aren't an autocrosser, the stock class where S2000's compete have had less and less participation since the inception of the CR since it made the AP1 and AP2 obsolete. Not a good long term vision.

I think most are fine the CR got moved out of BS. It basically killed BS over the last couple of years. I think B-Street will be a well subscribed class with the AP1/AP2 and we'll see if the C5 Vette guys feel like running in it or not. There is also the MX-5 MSR. Who wins is probably going to be really course dependent.

They put the CR in SS to bury it. There has been some a anecdotal evidence the GT3/Elise stock on street tires runs about the same times as STR...

There may be enough support for it to not move to SS and go to AS instead. Last year they proposed moving the Z0K and MS-R to BS and it failed.