SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[Wepeel]

I'm really surprised how short that tire was available for. Seems like most other tires run for about 3-4 years and can be competitive throughout it's entire duration (Z1*, RS3, R1R, etc). The Z2 will have only been produced really for one autocross season.

But apparently the Z2 StarSpec will improve grip by 3%.

[Sccabrz192]

Was reading through the tire eligibility guidelines this morning... if the Version 2 R-S3 is delayed to market by 2 weeks (post April 30th)... It appears they may not be eligible for this season...

From Section 13.3:
Tire models not meeting the requirements by April 30 are not eligible for Solo® competition until after the Solo® National Cham- pionships of the year.

1. Tire availability: Tires are considered available when competitors can take possession through retail channels. Pre-orders are not considered available.

...

4. Material Change: Tires which previously met the eligiblity require- ments that undergo a significant compound change, tread pattern change, or other significant redesign reset the requirement for eli- gibility described in Section 13.3.B.

Fingers crossed they hit their expected ship date....

[Wepeel]

And I wonder/hope the revised RS3 is as fast/good as the outgoing version... I know they changed the compound for better cool/wet performance, will be interesting if they could achieve that without taking away from the warm dry characteristics. I wouldn't take it as a given that they will drive like the old ones.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by Wepeel

And I wonder/hope the revised RS3 is as fast/good as the outgoing version... I know they changed the compound for better cool/wet performance, will be interesting if they could achieve that without taking away from the warm dry characteristics. I wouldn't take it as a given that they will drive like the old ones.

Yup total unknown. Hope it's not a falken 615 all over again.


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[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

Was reading through the tire eligibility guidelines this morning... if the Version 2 R-S3 is delayed to market by 2 weeks (post April 30th)... It appears they may not be eligible for this season...

From Section 13.3:
Tire models not meeting the requirements by April 30 are not eligible for Solo® competition until after the Solo® National Cham- pionships of the year.

1. Tire availability: Tires are considered available when competitors can take possession through retail channels. Pre-orders are not considered available.

...

4. Material Change: Tires which previously met the eligiblity require- ments that undergo a significant compound change, tread pattern change, or other significant redesign reset the requirement for eli- gibility described in Section 13.3.B.

Fingers crossed they hit their expected ship date....

Tire track is saying 4/14 I think. hope they make it. I hope they stiffen the sidewalls too!

Also, I don't know if this is a significant change.

I have email corespondance with Hankook's motorsport director and even he described it to me as a 'minor change' to the compound.

[JRTritsch]

Has anyone tried running without a rear bar instead of adding the front bar? I'm tempted to try it.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by JRTritsch

Has anyone tried running without a rear bar instead of adding the front bar? I'm tempted to try it.

The car already had too much rotation stock so I never tried. I know one of the STX guys tried a few rear bars when he was relatively stock and quickly undid it.

If you really want to try, you can find really cheap RSBs from WRXs (16mm) and STIs (19mm) that will bolt up (we use WRX rear subframe and suspension from what I understand).

Also remember that we have torsen differentials. If you lift a real wheel, you lose all drive and will likely flip the computer out, even if all aides off. I have seen pictures of me nearly doglegging the car with the stock front bar so be careful if you go stiffer in the rear.

[jprice130]

Henry you make great points about the considerations to make when adding a larger rear sway bar, but I believe JRTritsch was just asking about removing the stock rear sway, not replacing it with a larger one.

I personally have not tried removing the rear sway bar, but if you've got more oversteer than you want and don't have the money for a larger front sway bar, it's certainly worth a shot.

Disconnecting a sway bar at the track is not an uncommon tactic as a last ditch effort for control. I competed in a friend's Lotus Elise last year and we used to disconnect the end-links on the front sway bar completely for rain events. The front end would plow and understeer horribly on corner entry in rainy conditions, so disconnecting the bar would really help. Plus when it's raining you don't have enough lateral grip to generate a lot of body roll, so the sway bars aren't doing much for you in those situations anyway.

[Sccabrz192]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

Tire track is saying 4/14 I think. hope they make it. I hope they stiffen the sidewalls too!

Also, I don't know if this is a significant change.

I have email corespondance with Hankook's motorsport director and even he described it to me as a 'minor change' to the compound.

If it comes down and the change is post 4/30, we'll need clarification I'm sure. My expectation is any compound change would be considered need to reevaluate its eligibility.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by Sccabrz192

If it comes down and the change is post 4/30, we'll need clarification I'm sure. My expectation is any compound change would be considered need to reevaluate its eligibility.

You're likely right. I'm going to just pretend that they will not have any chanc eof missing street date. Especially with Dunlop just announcing they are stopping production of Z2s and the replacement won't be out until end of year. That means we may be stuck with Rival being the only tire you can get and compete on (I don't believe in R1Rs, RE11As or any other for top level competitiveness).

And I really didn't like the Rival's performance, especially for Lincoln.

[Kido1986]

Originally Posted by JRTritsch

Has anyone tried running without a rear bar instead of adding the front bar? I'm tempted to try it.

Originally Posted by jprice130

Henry you make great points about the considerations to make when adding a larger rear sway bar, but I believe JRTritsch was just asking about removing the stock rear sway, not replacing it with a larger one.

I personally have not tried removing the rear sway bar, but if you've got more oversteer than you want and don't have the money for a larger front sway bar, it's certainly worth a shot.

Disconnecting a sway bar at the track is not an uncommon tactic as a last ditch effort for control. I competed in a friend's Lotus Elise last year and we used to disconnect the end-links on the front sway bar completely for rain events. The front end would plow and understeer horribly on corner entry in rainy conditions, so disconnecting the bar would really help. Plus when it's raining you don't have enough lateral grip to generate a lot of body roll, so the sway bars aren't doing much for you in those situations anyway.

You're right. I mis-read that while sitting in a McDonalds just to use wifi while waiting on a phone call lol.

Not sure if anyone has tried that with these cars. When the bar I wanted got delayed, I just used toe-in out back to settle the rear end instead of removing the bar.

[JRTritsch]

Originally Posted by Kido1986

You're right. I mis-read that while sitting in a McDonalds just to use wifi while waiting on a phone call lol.

Not sure if anyone has tried that with these cars. When the bar I wanted got delayed, I just used toe-in out back to settle the rear end instead of removing the bar.

I actually just removed the front whiteline bar for unrelated reasons and I was thinking about trying without the rear. I'll probably just disconnect it at the next event to see what its like back to back. I figured I would ask and see if someone tried and it was an obvious no-go. Local site is small and not particularly grippy and I don't think the front bar is helping that much in those circumstances.

I haven't tried playing with rear toe yet. Whats with these short toe-links/dynamic rear toe anyway? It seems like a stupid way to design a suspension, or am I missing something?

[dsgerbc]

The logic of removing swaybars escapes me, unless you've got so much grip that you're lifting the rear wheel and you've got the biggest front bar already, or you're doing rally.
Otherwise you're just increasing the share of weight transfer that occurs via suspension travel and getting into bad part of camber curve, and lower grip on both axles.

I'd just pump the rear tire really high, if I wanted less grip there w/o sacrificing front grip.

That's probably what I'm gonna do this season too, since I've decided against getting good rubber/wheels. I'm just gonna run it stock with some camber bolts. Sort of as a benchmark for all those twin drivers who decided to splurge

[7thgear]

weight transfer due to suspension travel is minimal, by disconnecting the swaybars you are decreasing the weight transfer to that corner and improve mechanical grip at the cost of reduced (and on a stock car, severely) ability to perform quick transitions


I rode my VW without a front bar...


anyway, this could be a tactic to use in stock class on a bumpy ground or mayhaps in the rain?


it could have it's uses.. but one would have to be really good in their car as is to be able to pinch out that extra benefit should the stars align.