SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by dwx

The MSR/Z0K is a whole different story, that is an entirely different package/model of car which can be moved as a single item like it has been. When you have these line item port installed options which change the performance of the car, it's a different thing.

I get that it's different from a perspective of what options the SEB has available to deal with the situation. There was no way a base Miata could install just the MSR springs because they weren't a line item option, it was a package; so you just move the whole package to a different class and problem solved without affecting base model folks.

My point is that Mazda never once delivered a fully built MSR, despite their documentation that the option package was a port install - in other words, just the documentation saying "this is port installed" was enough to be legal, despite the fact that no port installs ever took place. If the part number existed, the option was technically available for order for 2013, and the part came out in 2013, I'm not sure that's a stretch especially given the supply chain issues you noted.

[bholliday]

How much does the tread width effect the tire performance? I was looking at the Tire Rack's published data on the RE71R and was surprised by the numbers.

215/45/17 - 7.2"
225/45/17 - 7.6"
235/45/17 - 7.7"
245/40/17 - 8.6"
245/45/17 - 8.2"

For the same size tire, the RE71R tread width is significantly less the the ZII* and Rival S

225/45/17: 7.6 (RE71R), 8.2 (ZII*), 8.5 (Rival S)
245/40/17: 8.6 (RE71R), 9.2 (ZII*), 9.1 (Rival S)

I was planning to buy 225/45/17 RE71R, but maybe I should buy something wider?

[7thgear]

yeah this all weird since the section width is supposed to be a measurement in mm and universal, but in reality ends up being completely different from one manufacturer to the next.

[bholliday]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

yeah this all weird since the section width is supposed to be a measurement in mm and universal, but in reality ends up being completely different from one manufacturer to the next.

The Tire Rack shows the section widths to be the same on these tires. But, the tread width varies substantially.

[qoncept]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

yeah this all weird since the section width is supposed to be a measurement in mm and universal, but in reality ends up being completely different from one manufacturer to the next.

...and, as I suspected, not even consistent amongst a single tire model (in bholliday's post, each should be ~.4" wider than the last and they aren't).

This makes my buddy's spreadsheet documenting width * grip / cost completely futile. And as I've mentioned in the past, I'm almost positive you can count on tire weights, between manufacturers and even different sizes of the same model tire being inaccurate/imprecise enough to make them useless.

All this, plus the limited scientific evidence suggests to me that you should just pick a tire you like among the "common sense" options we've discussed ad nauseam.

[Jawnathin]

If it'll help, I can stack my RS3 V2s and RE71Rs next to each other and see which stack is taller. They are both 245/40/17s and pinched on 17x7 +42 RPF1s.

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Did you even talk to a Scion dealer prior to writing your post or forming your opinion?

Call your local Scion dealer and ask, or chat with customer service. Talk to someone who will actually look into the database for you and they will all confirm that the PNs are listed in the database as port options. There is nothing "grey" here. Its pretty black/white.

Like I said before, its not about verification, its about documentation from this point. The documentation will surface eventually.

Also, please stop the "careful what you wished for" BS. I didn't wish for it. It was just a reality that no one had previously uncovered. What would rather prefer? This info in the open and clarified in advance or some guy pulling up to you at Nats with these and YOU unprepared?

I dont know about you, but I would rather start dealing with the reality of the now vs crying about "what may be".

Did you bother getting a ruling before declaring "all clear"? You're projecting just a smidge there, and you seem very eager to try and shout down anyone who might dare to question your interpretation of it or expand on the possible implications. That's the point of a discussion forum.

Yes, I talked to a dealer. My dealer is also my region's assistant RE. So, I have pretty ready access and don't need to hope he understands what I'm driving at with the questions, as opposed to some stranger in a call-center. He is looking into it. At first response, yes, they are/were at least available as port options that were, shall we say, poorly advertised.

If you are hunting documentation that will

surface eventually

then yeah, it's still a gray area. If you aren't looking to dive in feet first without the documentation being sought on-hand, it's a gray area. I get that you see it differently, though. When/if settled, legal is legal, though, whether by an inch or a mile. Hair shirts are hairy, but legal hair shirts are legal.

I will grant that I should have phrased "be careful what you wish for" differently. How about this: This may not be a solely/purely beneficial discovery.

As for what I'd prefer? I've said twice now:

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

And I mean it. I'd prefer to see how this pans out before deciding what's next for me. I can see this going in a few different directions, all with pros and cons. Depending on how those cards change, I'll change how I play my hand.

There are additional relevant questions here that aren't "is it legal." If you don't want to discuss them, then don't. But please don't try to commandeer the whole conversation just because somebody is pointing out that it's not all beer and boobies. Particularly in the fashion in which you do it. That's just disrespectful.

Last, I am quite glad that somebody is trying to address this more proactivley instead of surprising folks. So thanks for volunteering as a test case. Kudos. It's frankly quite wise.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by renfield90

I get that it's different from a perspective of what options the SEB has available to deal with the situation. There was no way a base Miata could install just the MSR springs because they weren't a line item option, it was a package; so you just move the whole package to a different class and problem solved without affecting base model folks.

My point is that Mazda never once delivered a fully built MSR, despite their documentation that the option package was a port install - in other words, just the documentation saying "this is port installed" was enough to be legal, despite the fact that no port installs ever took place. If the part number existed, the option was technically available for order for 2013, and the part came out in 2013, I'm not sure that's a stretch especially given the supply chain issues you noted.

I know people who have MS-R Miatas delivered as such from Mazda. Chris Fenter is a good friend of mine and his was an original MS-R, he did not do a conversion. That's kind of here nor there however. It will be interesting how all the spring stuff turns out.

Everyone is flocking to the RE71R now, then everyone will probably flock to the Rival-S when it comes out. Even though we are going to softer compounds, they are still a hell of a lot cheaper than Hoosiers. A 245/40/17 A6 is $289/ea. now...

[klittl06]

Anyone have recommendations on alignment specs? I dd my car and drive a good amount if that makes a difference.

[Laloosh]

So I am on the stock wheels and need some help/opinions. I have read that 245/40/17s rub a little when running stock wheels. Not something I want to do, nor do I want to buy rpf1s or any other aftermarket wheel. Where do 245/40/17s rub? Has anybody had any rubbing with 235/45/17s?

[Jawnathin]

Originally Posted by Laloosh

So I am on the stock wheels and need some help/opinions. I have read that 245/40/17s rub a little when running stock wheels. Not something I want to do, nor do I want to buy rpf1s or any other aftermarket wheel. Where do 245/40/17s rub? Has anybody had any rubbing with 235/45/17s?

245/40 on stock offset rubs on the spring. You can always get spacers. But then you need new wheel studs too.

I don't know about a 235/45 but I think a 235/40 is ok on stock offset.

[cactus]

Originally Posted by Laloosh

So I am on the stock wheels and need some help/opinions. I have read that 245/40/17s rub a little when running stock wheels. Not something I want to do, nor do I want to buy rpf1s or any other aftermarket wheel. Where do 245/40/17s rub? Has anybody had any rubbing with 235/45/17s?

ZIIs rubbed when at full left lock. Mine never rubbed on the spring with crash bolts.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by cactus

ZIIs rubbed when at full left lock. Mine never rubbed on the spring with crash bolts.

I am assuming this was 235/40/17? Or is it 235/45/17?

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Laloosh

I am assuming this was 235/40/17? Or is it 235/45/17?

He had 245/40/17.