SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[bslate3]

If FRS owners get TRD springs then why can't BRZ owners get STI springs?

On another note, can we shave down the bumpstops in CS?

[Cueman]

Originally Posted by bslate3

If FRS owners get TRD springs then why can't BRZ owners get STI springs?

On another note, can we shave down the bumpstops in CS?

No.... but maybe they can have a shiny battery tie down, and some irrelevant aero bits. This is why the Aozora is still in CS while the RS1.0 (or whatever you guys call them in the USA) is in BS.

[coneracer30]

Originally Posted by bslate3

If FRS owners get TRD springs then why can't BRZ owners get STI springs?

On another note, can we shave down the bumpstops in CS?

Yes, you can cut down the bumpstops. Cannot make them longer though.

[jdrxb9]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

...
Standard Part
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered
with the car, installed on the factory production line, and delivered through
a dealer in the United States. Port-installed options provided by the manufacturer are considered to be the same as those installed on the factory production line. Dealer-installed options or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no matter how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition. This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts....

The Scion consumer build page definitely supports these parts as port-installed, but to me it is not clear that they are manufacturer 'options' and not 'accessories'. DWX's list certainly makes them seem like accessories. As far as SCCA is concerned do 'accessories' = 'options' if they are port installed? What exactly is the precedent set by the Mini parts?

Overall, more power to you. I'm actually surprised it took this long for a special-order Scion to obsolete the BRZ's (and maybe the older FRS's too - it might be a while before that is settled - esp if any protest ruling is specific to your 2015 and we have to wait for someone with an older car to prep, run, and get a ruling). I'm just disappointed this didn't get figured out / publicized in the fall - I'd have more seriously looked at M3's over the winter!

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by jdrxb9

The Scion consumer build page definitely supports these parts as port-installed, but to me it is not clear that they are manufacturer 'options' and not 'accessories'. DWX's list certainly makes them seem like accessories. As far as SCCA is concerned do 'accessories' = 'options' if they are port installed? What exactly is the precedent set by the Mini parts?

Overall, more power to you. I'm actually surprised it took this long for a special-order Scion to obsolete the BRZ's (and maybe the older FRS's too - it might be a while before that is settled - esp if any protest ruling is specific to your 2015 and we have to wait for someone with an older car to prep, run, and get a ruling). I'm just disappointed this didn't get figured out / publicized in the fall - I'd have more seriously looked at M3's over the winter!

As far as the rules are concerned, label of accessories or options is irrelevant. They are both parts. Parts with a manufacturer PN that are offered as installed by the factory (port install services are an extension of the factory) are considered Standard Parts by the definition of the rule book.

For example, the trd sway bar package with the pn I listed would be legal (because offered as port installed part), but if the dealer offered whiteline parts to be equipped with the car and installed by the dealer, they would not be legal for the SCCA. Many dealerships offer their own range of accessories, which are determined by the dealership. Dealer-made accessories do not have an auto manufacturer's part number. "Genuine" accessories are offered by the manufacturer and have real manufacturer part numbers. Of those genuine accessories, some of them are offered as a Post Production Option. Post Production means that they are options offered after they leave the overseas factory and installed per order at the port, prior to delivery to the dealership. Port installation services are very common for overseas manufacturers, as it allows the factory to produce a common spec product, which is later "localized" once it arrives in its port of destination.
Port install services are generally cheaper labor-wise, thus making the overall costs to the customer for that option cheaper.

Hopes this helps clear things up for you.

The data I have seen at my local dealer showed the springs and sways were PPOs for the 2013 models as well. It seems they they were an option in the internal ordering system, but not made available until around the end of MY2013. No publications can be found so far though, and it looks like the official brochure does not list them (probably due their late arrival). Regardless, if we can gather enough evidence that they were indeed offered by the manufacturer for MY2013, the parts would be legal for Street.

[jdrxb9]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

As far as the rules are concerned, label of accessories or options is irrelevant.

are you sure?

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

They are both parts.

agreed in a colloquial sense, but not necessarily in scca land

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

Parts with a manufacturer PN that are offered as installed by the factory (port install services are an extension of the factory) are considered Standard Parts by the definition of the rule book.

The rulebook says port-installed options provided by the manufacturer are considered to be the same as those installed on the factory production line. To me, your paperwork will have to show they are 'options'. Then again, maybe I'm reading it too literally and some precedent has already been set that says the label doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

The data I have seen at my local dealer showed the springs and sways were PPOs for the 2013 models as well. It seems they they were an option in the internal ordering system, but not made available until around the end of MY2013. No publications can be found so far though, and it looks like the official brochure does not list them (probably due their late arrival). Regardless, if we can gather enough evidence that they were indeed offered by the manufacturer for MY2013, the parts would be legal for Street.

All agreed - along with the stuff snipped that you didn't have to re-type from a couple pages ago. The question I see coming is: does the paperwork show them as PPO's, or just a list of 'accessories' and does that matter?

[simpleisbest]

Originally Posted by jdrxb9

are you sure?

agreed in a colloquial sense, but not necessarily in scca land

The rulebook says port-installed options provided by the manufacturer are considered to be the same as those installed on the factory production line. To me, your paperwork will have to show they are 'options'. Then again, maybe I'm reading it too literally and some precedent has already been set that says the label doesn't matter.




All agreed - along with the stuff snipped that you didn't have to re-type from a couple pages ago. The question I see coming is: does the paperwork show them as PPO's, or just a list of 'accessories' and does that matter?

My documents clearly show the spring and sways as PPOs

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Cueman

I dunno guys. Do we actually want this?

At this point the cat is out of the bag. Even if simpleisbest drops this and runs away, others (including myself) will pick it up. It's nice that simpleisbest is sharing this information publicly, rather than just showing up at nats with a trick car and schooling us.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

My documents clearly show the spring and sways as PPOs

Are you going to post these docs at some point or is there some confirmation you're still waiting for?

As far as I'm concerned, if you have the documentation to prove legality and you carry it with you in case of protest, the part is legal.

[jdrxb9]

Originally Posted by simpleisbest

My documents clearly show the spring and sways as PPOs

OK then. When do you plan on being prepped and running at a 'national' event where you might (plan on?) get protested? (April Crows Landing events?)

[bslate3]

I had another fun event and 1st place for CS amd 16th in PAX with the local Equipe Rapide group.

This was the first event with the Perrin 19mm front sway bar installed. I liked how it performed and settled the rear down and let me get on the throttle more on corner exit.

Driving tips and comments appreciated!

ER #2 BRZ CS 1st place run:

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by bslate3

I had another fun event and 1st place for CS amd 16th in PAX with the local Equipe Rapide group.

This was the first event with the Perrin 19mm front sway bar installed. I liked how it performed and settled the rear down and let me get on the throttle more on corner exit.

Driving tips and comments appreciated!

ER #2 BRZ CS 1st place run:

Lots and lots of sawing on the wheel. I'm gonna attribute that to the new bar and the damp conditions both causing a lot of uncertainty for you, but it's something to be mindful of to make sure that doesn't become a habit in the dry.

[bslate3]

Thanks for the input. I'm usually smoother in the dry. And with the new sway bar I'm still learning the limits of traction and slip angle before you lose momentum.

[klittl06]

Originally Posted by renfield90

At this point the cat is out of the bag. Even if simpleisbest drops this and runs away, others (including myself) will pick it up. It's nice that simpleisbest is sharing this information publicly, rather than just showing up at nats with a trick car and schooling us.

Anyone mind posting the part numbers? I asked via live chat but was told the didn't know lol.