Inexpensive shocks dyno'd... - Page 3 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

fatoni · 04-25-2013, 10:36 PM

so, is there an award or something for a thread not turning into complete shit immediately or...this reminds me of how this forum was pre release.

OrbitalEllipses · 04-25-2013, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson May

In all honesty, marketing also plays a pretty big role in how "adjustable" a suspension is. This is where things start to get a little ridiculous in my opinion. You would be surprised at how many people purchase coilovers in the entry level market based on 1. Color of the shocks and 2. Supposed "adjust-ability" of the shocks.

Adjsutability is definitely marketing. As is color. Check the thread in this forum with the title "who likes blue?" or some such nonsense. To me adjustability has always been overrated; yes you can adjust to the way you drive or fix something you don't like, but it adds a layer of complexity that I don't need. Perhaps if I knew more and competed more, but I've always thought a well damped shock with the proper spring to be better for my purposes. MANY adjustable shocks have so much cross-talk that adjusting the shock does NOTHING useful. We're trying to adjust a force here; if adjusting that force alters the way the shock responds to another force what exactly are you accomplishing? Nahmean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

this reminds me of how this forum was pre release.

Sad, but true.

funbeatsfast · 04-26-2013, 12:41 AM

Awesome thread. CSG, Fortune, RCE, the whole lot of you.

Dave-ROR · 04-26-2013, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

This is one of the best posts I've seen on this board. Props sir.

Agreed.

Dave-ROR · 04-26-2013, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

so, is there an award or something for a thread not turning into complete shit immediately or...this reminds me of how this forum was pre release.

Nah, this is just what happens when you have mature posters on a topic.

Dave-ROR · 04-26-2013, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Adjsutability is definitely marketing. As is color. Check the thread in this forum with the title "who likes blue?" or some such nonsense. To me adjustability has always been overrated; yes you can adjust to the way you drive or fix something you don't like, but it adds a layer of complexity that I don't need. Perhaps if I knew more and competed more, but I've always thought a well damped shock with the proper spring to be better for my purposes. MANY adjustable shocks have so much cross-talk that adjusting the shock does NOTHING useful. We're trying to adjust a force here; if adjusting that force alters the way the shock responds to another force what exactly are you accomplishing? Nahmean?

I've run regular and custom valved bilsteins for that very reason. Adjustable dampers obviously have their place and I'm running them (well will when I'm less lazy) on the BRZ. I prefer 5-10 click adjustments, some of these are, as Mr. May stated, absolutely ridiculous with the number of clicks and crap they have. I'm not even sure how many clicks the R2 has, but I'd guess 7-10.. it wasn't an important number for me.

And I think you know what you are accomplishing by correctly damping a given force...

OrbitalEllipses · 04-26-2013, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

And I think you know what you are accomplishing by correctly damping a given force...

Correctly. But I'm referencing the cross-talk on cheap coilovers.

SubieNate · 04-26-2013, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I've run regular and custom valved bilsteins for that very reason. Adjustable dampers obviously have their place and I'm running them (well will when I'm less lazy) on the BRZ. I prefer 5-10 click adjustments, some of these are, as Mr. May stated, absolutely ridiculous with the number of clicks and crap they have. I'm not even sure how many clicks the R2 has, but I'd guess 7-10.. it wasn't an important number for me.

And I think you know what you are accomplishing by correctly damping a given force...

I went a similar route on my last car. Bought some STi takeoffs and the proper mounts to put them on my car (1999 GF wagon), had Odi at FEAL valve them for me. No regrets. Inverted monotubes, quality innards, great service from Odi if anything went wrong (it didn't).

I'm hoping for a Bilstein unit I can convert to a take apart honestly. That would be AWESOME. Have some nice bodies made up and it'll trash most anything if you get the valving right. Super easy rebuilds. Adjustable nitrogen charge. Tons of people who know exactly how the insides work. Not as easy to adjust it, but I'm also not Sebastian Vettel.

The biggest problem with adjustable systems is getting an adjustment system that is A. linear, B. consistent, and C. crosstalk free. There are little to no needle valve adjusters that can do this and orifice size adjusters are $$$. Not much under the $3000 mark does it. Koni does a good job for the most part but I've heard that matching them shock to shock is important. I'm waiting for dynos on the ASTs, the SRT's, and a couple of others before I make any decision but for me, a Bilstein monotube that can be revalved if needed is tops. Get friendly with someone local that knows the process and over a few weekends datalogging with a competent driver and you should be able to nail down a pretty good setup for any given spring rate.

Cheers
Nathan

Ro_Ja · 04-26-2013, 02:39 AM

Fat Cat Motorsports has done well in the Miata scene with revalved Bilsteins. Once Bilstein struts/shocks are available, I'll be going to FCM. Also, one of the techs who worked there mentioned to me that he found Öhlins shims to be much more consistent than Bilstein's.

ayau · 04-26-2013, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I've run regular and custom valved bilsteins for that very reason. Adjustable dampers obviously have their place and I'm running them (well will when I'm less lazy) on the BRZ. I prefer 5-10 click adjustments, some of these are, as Mr. May stated, absolutely ridiculous with the number of clicks and crap they have. I'm not even sure how many clicks the R2 has, but I'd guess 7-10.. it wasn't an important number for me.

And I think you know what you are accomplishing by correctly damping a given force...

Yeah, just confirmed my R2 has 7 rebound and 10 compression.

EarlQHan · 04-26-2013, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Being here and being knowledgeable and honest...honesty is the big thing...is huge. Kudos to them.

My sentiments exactly.

was385 · 04-26-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatoni

so, is there an award or something for a thread not turning into complete shit immediately or...this reminds me of how this forum was pre release.

Seriously. Once I saw the company got involved, I figured this thing was going to devolve into something awful quickly. Turned into an awesome thread instead.

FT-86 SpeedFactory · 04-26-2013, 10:33 AM

This is exactly why we work so much with Fortune. We enjoy'd the 500 series we had on the silver car and just got the 2-way set-up bolted up for One Lap next week. Testing today at the track.

naikaidriver · 04-26-2013, 11:27 AM

These threads that honestly get into the minutia of technical details with upfront discussion of the evidence as presented are my favorite by far!

I continue to learn more from you folks everyday! I for one, sincerely appreciate it!

Scott

04-26-2013, 02:39 AM	#37
Ro_Ja Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: TOYOTA Location: CA Posts: 401 Thanks: 191 Thanked 225 Times in 134 Posts Mentioned: 8 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Fat Cat Motorsports has done well in the Miata scene with revalved Bilsteins. Once Bilstein struts/shocks are available, I'll be going to FCM. Also, one of the techs who worked there mentioned to me that he found Öhlins shims to be much more consistent than Bilstein's. Last edited by Ro_Ja; 04-30-2013 at 02:47 AM.

04-26-2013, 11:27 AM	#42
naikaidriver Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S AT Asphalt Location: Lynnwood, WA Posts: 770 Thanks: 145 Thanked 673 Times in 289 Posts Mentioned: 13 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	These threads that honestly get into the minutia of technical details with upfront discussion of the evidence as presented are my favorite by far! I continue to learn more from you folks everyday! I for one, sincerely appreciate it! Scott __________________

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04-25-2013, 10:36 PM	#29
fatoni Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Drives: miata, mazdaspeed protege, ls430 Location: socal Posts: 4,416 Thanks: 599 Thanked 1,442 Times in 787 Posts Mentioned: 28 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	so, is there an award or something for a thread not turning into complete shit immediately or...this reminds me of how this forum was pre release.

04-26-2013, 12:41 AM	#31
funbeatsfast Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Drives: '13 FR-S Location: Ohio Posts: 115 Thanks: 13 Thanked 21 Times in 15 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Awesome thread. CSG, Fortune, RCE, the whole lot of you.

04-26-2013, 10:33 AM	#41
FT-86 SpeedFactory Join Date: Jul 2012 Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 7,694 Thanks: 1,298 Thanked 3,578 Times in 1,253 Posts Mentioned: 341 Post(s) Tagged: 5 Thread(s)	This is exactly why we work so much with Fortune. We enjoy'd the 500 series we had on the silver car and just got the 2-way set-up bolted up for One Lap next week. Testing today at the track.

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