Additional "pedal dance" testing.

[lazyluka]

Thank you for your post. I believe that this was a factor in my accident and I am trying to prove this very thing at the moment.

[Wonderbar]

Originally Posted by robispec

my rear brakes work way better than the stock units. If I don't do the pedal dance the rear braking to "keep the rear dif locked" is intrusive abusive AND totally unnessisary as without a rear sway the car NEVER even thinks about lifting the inside rear wheel.. the g sensors are telling the ECU that so much side G is developing that the inside rear "MUST" be lifting.. its a real PITA...I hate "predictive" algorythms it's what produces Ice mode too...

Do you get THAT much more rear grip by removing the sway? What did you do to the front to counter it and negate the understeer? I was thinking about giving this a go for AutoX but I may want a bit stiffer rear to get the rotation of the car.

Any additional bracing to the rear?

[robispec]

Our car is 3 inches lower than stock so the way the weight transfers is significantly different from stock. Also we're running KW dampers with higher spring rates and higher spring rates on the back as well Versus the front spring rate. I personally like the extra articulation you get in the backend and that keeps the inside tire on the ground which keeps the quaife/torsten style differential locked.

[jam0o0]

is there any reason not to just pull the ABS fuse for track/autoX events? obviously you have to pay attention to the brakes but it seems like it would solve all of these intermittent "helper" problems.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by jam0o0

is there any reason not to just pull the ABS fuse for track/autoX events? obviously you have to pay attention to the brakes but it seems like it would solve all of these intermittent "helper" problems.

Yes, you loose ABS if you do that. Pedal Dance retains ABS.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jam0o0

is there any reason not to just pull the ABS fuse for track/autoX events? obviously you have to pay attention to the brakes but it seems like it would solve all of these intermittent "helper" problems.

I'm not fast enough to remove ABS... but I know there are other drivers here who are.

[7thgear]

you can pull at an autocross

i would not pull at the track, you never know when you're gonna panic brake while turning and you'll be glad you have ABS when you do.

[mkiisupra]

Tried the 'pedal dance' at autocross last weekend. Miserable fail with an 'ice mode' non-stop through a turnaround feature. I must have stabbed the brakes too hard with some throttle still on (I left foot brake). Brake pedal got immediately hard, pulsing through the brakes (I applied and re-applied the brakes twice), with little to no stopping force. The pulse was NOT ABS pulsing, and it stopped when I came to a rolling stop.

I didn't have anything like this for the other runs where I did the '5-sec defeat' of traction nannies.

Just another data point.

Eric G

[Kamran]

Last month in standing water, with the tap dance, I got the ice mode. Last weekend, in the dry and perfect weather/temp, I decided to run the car as it was intended by the factory and programmed on the track, i.e. in sport mode. With plenty of squeeling in the downhill turns, and plenty of surface traction, and occasional getting sideways, I never got the ice mode. Car performed very respectably against all the Porsches I was driving with, and only an occasional track prepped GT3 could match the cornering of this car.

I got plenty of controlled slides, to get a good taste of track driving character, so no lack of fun factor. So, I'm guessing with my experience, just maybe this car was intended to be in the sport mode for track driving?

I do not stump on the brakes, and my inputs are generally very smooth. So I cannot speak for the guys with abrupt inputs.

One thing I'm wondering though, if you have staggered wheel/tire set up, even with the same diameter wheel, your tire circumference would be different. And if the tire circumference is different between front and rear, the ECU is detecting a constant slipping. And any additional abruptness could trigger undesirable output?

[johhnc479]

Originally Posted by Kamran

Last month in standing water, with the tap dance, I got the ice mode. Last weekend, in the dry and perfect weather/temp, I decided to run the car as it was intended by the factory and programmed on the track, i.e. in sport mode. With plenty of squeeling in the downhill turns, and plenty of surface traction, and occasional getting sideways, I never got the ice mode. Car performed very respectably against all the Porsches I was driving with, and only an occasional track prepped GT3 could match the cornering of this car.

I got plenty of controlled slides, to get a good taste of track driving character, so no lack of fun factor. So, I'm guessing with my experience, just maybe this car was intended to be in the sport mode for track driving?

I do not stump on the brakes, and my inputs are generally very smooth. So I cannot speak for the guys with abrupt inputs.

One thing I'm wondering though, if you have staggered wheel/tire set up, even with the same diameter wheel, your tire circumference would be different. And if the tire circumference is different between front and rear, the ECU is detecting a constant slipping. And any additional abruptness could trigger undesirable output?

Interesting, will have to try that at autox.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Kamran

Last month in standing water, with the tap dance, I got the ice mode. Last weekend, in the dry and perfect weather/temp, I decided to run the car as it was intended by the factory and programmed on the track, i.e. in sport mode. With plenty of squeeling in the downhill turns, and plenty of surface traction, and occasional getting sideways, I never got the ice mode. Car performed very respectably against all the Porsches I was driving with, and only an occasional track prepped GT3 could match the cornering of this car.

I got plenty of controlled slides, to get a good taste of track driving character, so no lack of fun factor. So, I'm guessing with my experience, just maybe this car was intended to be in the sport mode for track driving?

I do not stump on the brakes, and my inputs are generally very smooth. So I cannot speak for the guys with abrupt inputs.

Is this purely AutoX?

My experience on the road course this weekend is that in track mode the system is still so invasive. It comes in and really freaks out on every turn. ABS was kicking in mid corner even in steady state cornering and it was really terrible. The day was very hot and the track was very greasy/sandy so lots and lots of slip.

For the rest of the day I switched to everything off (no pedal dance) and things were much better. I did see the emergency traction light flashing on most corners though but it wasn't invasive to the point where I could feel the car bucking and losing speed/power.

Next time I am running with the pedal dance.

[CSG Mike]

I've still yet to experience "Ice mode" in any car, and I brake pretty damn hard (although I don't stab... I squeeze).
@sw20kosh: Opinions on the braking of the cars you rode in?
@robispec also uses the pedal dance, and AFAIK, has not felt ice mode...

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've still yet to experience "Ice mode" in any car, and I brake pretty damn hard (although I don't stab... I squeeze).
@sw20kosh: Opinions on the braking of the cars you rode in?
@robispec also uses the pedal dance, and AFAIK, has not felt ice mode...

Braking styles were very different:

Mike - brakes late and very hard. poor breaks! lol
Robi - seemingly uses brakes less

I could tell mike's entry speeds were faster and he got to the entry points faster followed by lots of rear happiness during cornering. His style of driving is like what I see in a lot of fast s2000 track videos and those videos make my heart race. During the ride I remember thinking to myself "oh lord we are going 4 off here" but we didn't some how. He always managed to get the car back in line.

Robi's driving is very different. I guess a way to describe it is very smooth and even? The car just seems planted and very predictable. He also didn't want to scare me and I think was probably driving 70-80%.

Since I wasn't the one pressing the brakes, (and the way each driver braked was dramatically different) I can't tell any difference between the actual braking systems.

Both cars had dramatically more grip than my stock dampered car. I was thoroughly impressed with the comfort level and grip level of both the TEIN SRC's and the robispec KW VIII's. What are the spring rate differences of your cars? How much stiffer is the CSG brz @CSG Mike?

Also I could barely see out of Robi's car since the seat is like a foot lower than stock...........so my POV (literally) in his car is very different lol

[CSG Mike]

Must be that S2k/MR2 influence... I used to have a BEAMS MKII... :p

I still need to catch a ride with Robi, but I will say I'm far smoother in his car. Probably a result of setup... (his car is far easier to pick up quickly IMO).