Long Term FR-S

[Don_SA]

Do you have a link to the Car and Driver article saying Scion is going away?

Would wait an extra year to get a Toyota-branded GT86...

PS I do not think they will dump Scion but I would be glad to see the brand go the way of Plymouth and Pontiac.

[boead]

Here is some info I just found:

Mazda Miata
2006 (Debut NC model) - 16,900 units USA
1989 (debut year) - 23,050 units USA
1990 – 35,950 peak year units USA
2005 - 9,800 units USA
2012 – 6,000 units USA

Honda S2000
1999 – 3,400 units USA
2002 – 9,700 peak year units USA
2009 – 800 last and lowest production year units USA

Scion FRS in its first 11 months sold
16,050 units USA (10k allocated for USA in 2012, an additional 20k are being produced for 2013)

Toyota 86 in its first 11 months sold (non-usa)
7,000 which is nearly 6x’s the original target =-O (low expectations)

Subaru BRZ in its first 11 months sold
5,900 units USA

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by sbxjap

The price point could've been higher too, to match the BRZ. This would allow for better trim, HIDs, etc. The 10 Series FR-S is what the FR-S should've been like (minus the glowing emblems and solar powered shift knob, lol).

I don't want that crap, incredibly glad it's a Scion.

Even if Scion tanks they can just keep selling it as a Toyota no big deal. Akio Toyoda is placing a lot of emphasis on making a car "fun", one market brand tanking does not mean they will kill the car.

Also means the Scion brand may become a bit more valuable than anticipated, also leasing is dumb, why would you want to get rid of this car? If the OEM has screwed something up replacements aren't that hard to come by, it's a car not a cell phone.

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Also means the Scion brand may become a bit more valuable than anticipated, also leasing is dumb, why would you want to get rid of this car? If the OEM has screwed something up replacements aren't that hard to come by, it's a car not a cell phone.

I couldn't agree more.:happy0180:

Scott

[sbxjap]

I would've had a harder time deciding on which car to get if the 10 Series came out last year... some of us actually like the extra.

[boead]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

... also leasing is dumb, why would you want to get rid of this car? If the OEM has screwed something up replacements aren't that hard to come by, it's a car not a cell phone.

Its all about the numbers.

Example:
A $50,000 car (plus tax and fees) would cost approx. $1000/month for 5 years.

The same car leased would likely be less than half that for the first 2 or 3 years. And then you get another new one, indefinitely if that is what you want!
The less millage per year you drive the more of an advantage Leasing is.

For ANYONE that drives over 15000 miles per year, leasing is not financially positive or even possible.

ALSO the type of car, its residual value will also determine lease value. Expensive cars (MB's, BMW's, Porsche, Audi and so on) lease well.

2013 335i xDrive Coupe FULLY LOADED (top of the line)
Lease with NO money down ($0 at signing) is about $450/month for 3 years.
BUY with NO money down ($0 at signing) is about $1000/month for 5 years. Sure you own it BUT its value is relatively low and warrantee is over so maintenance expenses start to apply.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by boead

Its all about the numbers.

You're right, when you change cars like purses it makes sense to not purchase. It's a mindset that doesn't make sense to me, cars are a personal thing that you develop a connection with.

But then again I guess the guy who's prepping to do his first timing chain change on his secondary vehicle isn't representative of the consumer base as a whole.


Edit: I also think that getting any warranty past the base factory one is a waste of money. Anything that breaks out of the factory warranty wouldn't be covered anyway and if it's a recurring problem obviously the OEM doesn't care and you'll have to go aftermarket anyway. I plan on keeping this car as long as it makes sense, hopefully I won't have to give it up until my hips give out.

[ihaskrayon]

I thought I read something a while back that said they expect to be producing this car for a decade

[naikaidriver]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You're right, when you change cars like purses it makes sense to not purchase. It's a mindset that doesn't make sense to me, cars are a personal thing that you develop a connection with.

But then again I guess the guy who's prepping to do his first timing chain change on his secondary vehicle isn't representative of the consumer base as a whole.


Edit: I also think that getting any warranty past the base factory one is a waste of money. Anything that breaks out of the factory warranty wouldn't be covered anyway and if it's a recurring problem obviously the OEM doesn't care and you'll have to go aftermarket anyway. I plan on keeping this car as long as it makes sense, hopefully I won't have to give it up until my hips give out.

I would add one thing to this...

If you plan on modding your car... don't lease. This comes from experience with a 1997 Toyota Tacoma. They didn't appreciate me putting on a 1.5" lift and BFG TA's on it!

Scott

[torqdork]

Scion and particularly the FR-S platform look to have a bright future. As DarkSunrise showed, sales are above plan. This is no boutique MR2 Spyder. It's already known that the series will be expanded to include a cabriolet with rumors of a sedan and station wagon circulating.

It's also in Toyota's political interest to support Subaru and US production. Before Toyota's cash, facilities and engineering injection, Subaru was having substantial problems and was even losing dealer representation in important markets. Toyota, already in political cross-hairs, didn't want the rep of steamrolling competitors out of existence so the deal became a win-win. Factor Subaru Indiana production remaining open and expanding, and Toyota strengthens it's US presence even more.

Scion is here to stay. It was created to capture Millenials into the Scion/Toyota/Lexus product cycle who might otherwise have gone elsewhere. It's working to plan and the FR-S is a big reason why.

[Shanahan]

Originally Posted by regal

I really doubt there will be any motor swapping from a high volume car for these.

Much easier and readily available than you would think. If you can get it between the fenders and under the hood without hitting the ground you can make it work somehow with enough tape and rubber bands. It's a car not the space shuttle, people just want a plug and play kit for everything. If you really like a design you can make something work. Go to a budget drag strip and see the creative things people build on a budget. I've seen +500hp rotary engines in VW beetles, small block datsun pickups....

I was given the choice between a couple of different new Porsches and my FR-S. I went with the FR-S because I really liked the way it looks and drives all while not looking too pretentious. I also keep cars for decades so longevity is important. The FR-s will be in my collection (and used regularly) for a long time to come. If it needs a motor I'll figure out how to put something else in there. I'm thinking the 1GR-FE with a Supercharger would be fun (350hp with 0 maintenance) , or a 4th generation 3Sgte mated to a rav4 transmission (yes you can do it) would fit and have a potential +100k miles of 250hp with almost 0 turbo lag.
Plus limited production runs from high productions companies like Toyota / Subaru make for cool rare pieces. How many Celica all-tracs have you seen? Remember the Celica-Supra? the one year they were one car in the same not a Celica OR a supra. Find one in good condition and be ready to pay out the nose for it. I'd prefer the GT-86 to be a limited production car. I think they would have sold the same number of units or at least close even if the price was higher. Some people that have them would have still bought them, myself included. Those that could no longer afford it would have bought a civic or TC and those that snubbed the Scion badge would have bought it with a Toyota or Lexus badge at the higher price. Look how many people swap the badges from scion to Toyota and pay $600 or more just to remove the scion emblem from the airbag. that's my $.02 and I'm bored waiting on this conference call so you all get to read my ramblings.

[gily25]

Can we get numbers on tC sales before/after the launch?

eh I think that if the Scion brand drops off that the car will be badged as a Toyota and continue pushing on. I can't see them closing a new assembly production that they just opened/started but I can see them keeping it open and rebadging. I think Toyota has too much invested in this project to just toss it out, even if they inevitably toss out the Scion brand. Subaru has a good record of producing parts long-term, I've never heard anyone complain about getting parts for an XT.

[Jahdai42]

Originally Posted by ihaskrayon

I thought I read something a while back that said they expect to be producing this car for a decade

Well that is how long I plan to keep it before it becoumes a track queen.

From what I've heard, the FR-S was supposed to "save" scion. So far it has, I also heard that Toyota will probably Upscale scion and make most of there models into some sort of FR-S line up. I don't have the articles anymore, but this is what i have heard. Makes sense as they are supposedly making a 150HP car and a new high end car with BMW also. I also heard that the FR-S is the basically going to be the mid model car, that there is supposed to be at least 1 car below it and 1 car above it, however this was before i even heard about the convertible and the upscaling of scion.