FA20CLUB Turbo Kit Results Are In...60 Trim Impressive

[mid_life_crisis]

All the debating about what rpm spool is achieved and boost versus rpm graphs.
Who gives a rat's ass?! For a daily driver, that power curve is friggin gorgeous. What does all that crap matter if all you want is one hell of a lot of fun on tap?
Don't get me wrong, I understand curiosity, but you guys getting your backs up over this seems a bit too much.

[lbroskee]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

All the debating about what rpm spool is achieved and boost versus rpm graphs.
Who gives a rat's ass?! For a daily driver, that power curve is friggin gorgeous. What does all that crap matter if all you want is one hell of a lot of fun on tap?
Don't get me wrong, I understand curiosity, but you guys getting your backs up over this seems a bit too much.

I agree. But ppl lik me want a somewhat good spool time bc (yes i know its illegal so dont gimme crap) like to race our friends late at night withno traffic just for fun.

[FAER]

Quick spool is great, but there is very basic physics at work. You want quicker spool then you lose top end, u want top end then you lose spool.

Decide your highest power scenario and find a turbo that maxes out at or just beyond that, go dual ball bearing equal length runners, shortest pipe routes and enough room in your exhaust for it to breathe.

Really though this design of a kit with a gtx disco potato on e85 is going to be about the best street kit for someone who has no plans of creating a monster...

Me I'm actually going with a turbo even bigger than this one because a low comp block is in my future, along with 25-30psi

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

All the debating about what rpm spool is achieved and boost versus rpm graphs.
Who gives a rat's ass?! For a daily driver, that power curve is friggin gorgeous. What does all that crap matter if all you want is one hell of a lot of fun on tap?
Don't get me wrong, I understand curiosity, but you guys getting your backs up over this seems a bit too much.

I picked a 60 trim because I knew down the road I needed big power (and this still may be too small) and I was willing to give up spool over the 50 trim. In my head before I knew of this kit I thought the 50 trim would be perfect if I was going to make a kit.

Now that I actually drive and race with the 60 trim it's just about near perfect because it delivers a smooth onset of boost which is so critical in maintaining traction. I don't know how it feels on a factory ecu but with the Hydra EMS it's stronger than oem right off idle, surges hard but smoothly and maintains grip exceptionally well except in 1st and 2nd which is just a burn out competition

While I do think the 50 trim might be the best choice for the 5 psi pump gas crowd, the e85 or meth guys running 10+ psi need to consider traction limitations.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow

[mid_life_crisis]

My consternation was about the debating, which looked like it was going to get ugly.
I don't care if a turbo has technically spooled or not. All I care about is if it is making enough boost at a given rpm to provide the power I want. I may be misunderstanding what you guys mean by spooling, which I interpret to mean "making full boost" at a given rpm. If a turbo is capable of say 20 psi and all I need at low rpms is 5 psi, why do I care that it didn't make the full boost? If during its buildup to full boost, while it is "spooling up", it moves enough air to make the power I want at those lower rpms, what is the problem?
I know that some designers use what at first might seem like too large a turbo, planning on the fact that it will not spool up at low rpms, thereby naturally limiting the low rpm boost and protecting the engine from excessive low rpm torque. They know that even not fully spooled, it will move enough air to improve the bottom end over stock. It isn't a trade off, it is deliberate. The obvious bonus to this is the larger turbo can feed copious amounts of air to the engine at high rpm, making huge amounts of power where it is safe to do so.

Edit: Just reread your post and realized this is the same logic you applied to your setup except for traction management instead of preventing a blown motor.

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

My consternation was about the debating, which looked like it was going to get ugly.
I don't care if a turbo has technically spooled or not. All I care about is if it is making enough boost at a given rpm to provide the power I want. I may be misunderstanding what you guys mean by spooling, which I interpret to mean "making full boost" at a given rpm. If a turbo is capable of say 20 psi and all I need at low rpms is 5 psi, why do I care that it didn't make the full boost? If during its buildup to full boost, while it is "spooling up", it moves enough air to make the power I want at those lower rpms, what is the problem?
I know that some designers use what at first might seem like too large a turbo, planning on the fact that it will not spool up at low rpms, thereby naturally limiting the low rpm boost and protecting the engine from excessive low rpm torque. They know that even not fully spooled, it will move enough air to improve the bottom end over stock. It isn't a trade off, it is deliberate. The obvious bonus to this is the larger turbo can feed copious amounts of air to the engine at high rpm, making huge amounts of power where it is safe to do so.

Edit: Just reread your post and realized this is the same logic you applied to your setup except for traction management instead of preventing a blown motor.

Well many do not understand the concept that more boost doesn't always mean more power when comparing two different turbochargers. A large turbocharger could make the same power at 5 psi that a smaller turbo makes at 10 psi.

So you're right it's about the hp it makes for a given rpm. There really is no right or wrong turbocharger as long as it suits your needs or your goals. If you a lazy driver get something a little smaller but if you troll around at 3500 rpm + like I tend to size isn't so much an issue so something bigger and more efficient might make more sense.

[FAER]

Spool happens extremely quick it's not linear... At 4000 u may be at 2psi with full spool by 4300... It's not 1psi per X amount of rpm with full boost at Y

[lbroskee]

Originally Posted by FAER

Spool happens extremely quick it's not linear... At 4000 u may be at 2psi with full spool by 4300... It's not 1psi per X amount of rpm with full boost at Y

That's a SC they are describing, correct?

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by FAER

Spool happens extremely quick it's not linear... At 4000 u may be at 2psi with full spool by 4300... It's not 1psi per X amount of rpm with full boost at Y

If you mean full spool is 5 psi The 60 trim has a pretty smooth onset of boost as my logs from a mash at 2500 rpm, I'm seeing 1psi at 3100 rpm and it takes 2400 rpm to climb 13 psi. But if you're racing/starting from a higher RPM boost response is much quicker as in 500 rpm from no boost to 14 psi. Racers have no fear if you know what you're doing.

In higher gears you can hit 14 psi in the 4200-4500 rpm range.

The 60 trim I would say is not a quick spooler in the traditional sense but the smoother onset to higher boost levels meters horsepower almost perfectly (just starting to break traction throughout the rpm and I'm running a 285 slick). For me running an rpm range of 4k rpm to 8k rpm is nearly ideal for racing but I can street guys wanting 3500-7500.

Wish I had time today to hit the dyno as I'm curious what this baby is doing at 14 psi and e85!

[Black86]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

If you mean full spool is 5 psi The 60 trim has a pretty smooth onset of boost as my logs from a mash at 2500 rpm, I'm seeing 1psi at 3100 rpm and it takes 2400 rpm to climb 13 psi. But if you're racing/starting from a higher RPM boost response is much quicker as in 500 rpm from no boost to 14 psi. Racers have no fear if you know what you're doing.

In higher gears you can hit 14 psi in the 4200-4500 rpm range.

The 60 trim I would say is not a quick spooler in the traditional sense but the smoother onset to higher boost levels meters horsepower almost perfectly (just starting to break traction throughout the rpm and I'm running a 285 slick). For me running an rpm range of 4k rpm to 8k rpm is nearly ideal for racing but I can street guys wanting 3500-7500.

Wish I had time today to hit the dyno as I'm curious what this baby is doing at 14 psi and e85!

Get a dyno soon so we can see what it makes man!

[Element Tuning]

Originally Posted by Black86

Get a dyno soon so we can see what it makes man!

I know I'm really itching to see what 14 psi and beyond results in but so much customer work right now...just can't seem to make time. I'm unfortunately only running 750cc injectors which will not carry me far on e85.

[FeaR-S]

Originally Posted by FA20Club.com

Long day all around got to throw the car on the dyno to test our new base tune we finalized this week and decided to crank it up a notch and see how she liked it. Car runs even better on the new base tune than before and bumped up power on same 5psi level. When i ran her up to 10 psi we got 337hp 255tq. This was no timing changes mainly just the improved cam phasing and a few other things to make driveabilty better on the current kit. Next week we will complete the test with E85 on the same boost level and see what we get before we push it a little more. sorry just a crappy cell shot the dyno printer was dead. ill be back next week anyway so you guys get a sneak peek for now.

should be interesting as it cranks up more...

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I know I'm really itching to see what 14 psi and beyond results in but so much customer work right now...just can't seem to make time. I'm unfortunately only running 750cc injectors which will not carry me far on e85.

hey dont worry if its a nice day out in florida on my next retuning appointment i may crank it up more !!! btw congrats on the win on the track with the fa20club kit

[[[|==86==|]]]

Any quarter mile data for reference?