Random thoughts thread

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by babydriver

A couple (or more) reasons why giant aliens are probably not the norm:


1. Gravity. Bigger is definitely not better if you are on a planet with 3 times the gravitation of Earth. Blood is harder to pump uphill (towards the upper extremities), more food/nutrient/mineral resources must be devoted to muscles and skeletal structure, a fall is 3 times more deadly. In this situation, the aliens are likely to be relatively small and close to the ground.


2. Food resources in general. It costs more in terms of food to keep a big body going. More on this in a minute.


3. Unless you have a lot of natural enemies (i.e., other species that want to eat you) there is no evolutionary advantage in size. Now, when humans were prey to lions, etc., there was an advantage in being taller, because we could see over the grasslands and sometimes tell if something was coming with dinner on its mind. Chimps, bonobos and monkeys are tree dwellers so no need to get very big. Gorillas are ground dwellers so yes, they are bigger. Dinosaurs were big in an era of plenty (lots of plants and animals) and they got big to help avoid being eaten. Even there, if there is no real advantage in being big (think velociraptor) but you're really fast, then animals tend to stay smaller. Cheetahs are smaller than lions, but much faster.


In evolution, "it's all about the food."


I would not expect intelligent aliens to be a lot bigger or smaller than us. The biology just works out better for a creature our size to be large enough to avoid becoming Purina Lion Chow, while at the same time having a metabolism and body size appropriate to supporting our large brains; the brain uses up a lot of resources compared to pretty much anything else in the human body. (This last point is also why aliens won't be all head on an emaciated body. How could they have survived the period prior to their becoming thinking animals?)

That is based on the assumption that they evolved the same way we did and that they share the same basic molecular structure which of course would result in something at least basically similar. Why not a sentient giant cloud that subsists on ammonia? Or and intelligent being the size of an atom that feeds on magnetism? Could be all around us right now but we would never recognise it as intelligent life just because we have too narrow a focus on how life could develop. The fun part is that they wouldn't necessarily recognise us as life forms either since we could just look like lumps of carbon to them.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

so i wonder, is my niece still technically my niece since its from my ex wifes side?

Yes, yes she is and always will be. You were blood related to your wife and she was your niece so just because it is your ex's side of the family doesn't change that.

[MisterSheep]

"Cruisin' down the street in my flat four. Jockin the domestics, slappin the evos."

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

its a thought i had, i still plan to get her christmas and birthday presents.

of course. i'm just feeling it. everyone loses and it really sucks.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The fun part is that they wouldn't necessarily recognise us as life forms either since we could just look like lumps of carbon to them.

or ugly giant bags of mostly water

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzITuHWBCU"]Ugly Giant Bags of Mostly Water - YouTube[/ame]

[soulreapersteve]

It seems like every car think I want to race them ever since the new exhaust was put on. I pull away at red lights like I used to do before but now, a lot of them mash their go pedal and race on ahead...

Then again, I've been driving mostly in manual mode and shifting at higher RPMs now compared to Camry mode.

[Ultramaroon]

lol "Camry mode"

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

That is based on the assumption that they evolved the same way we did and that they share the same basic molecular structure which of course would result in something at least basically similar. Why not a sentient giant cloud that subsists on ammonia? Or and intelligent being the size of an atom that feeds on magnetism? Could be all around us right now but we would never recognise it as intelligent life just because we have too narrow a focus on how life could develop. The fun part is that they wouldn't necessarily recognise us as life forms either since we could just look like lumps of carbon to them.

Until we see something else, we have to assume that all life is based on carbon and water. The original question was about size. Intelligent life could of course take many forms (think whales and dolphins) but for any land-based creature size is fundamentally limited by gravity.

Whales are an exception for an obvious reason, they are suspended in a liquid; even there, food resources are a key issue. Now if you eat krill, then generally it will not be a problem getting enough food. But whales and dolphins do not make tools in the conventional sense, so it's hard to see how an alien race of whales could be much of a threat if they are like whales on Earth.

[echo419]

If they possess the technology to travel here from where ever the hell out in space them it stands to reason they have far greater tech them we do. Thus weaponry we can't compete with.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by babydriver

Until we see something else, we have to assume that all life is based on carbon and water. The original question was about size. Intelligent life could of course take many forms (think whales and dolphins) but for any land-based creature size is fundamentally limited by gravity.

Whales are an exception for an obvious reason, they are suspended in a liquid; even there, food resources are a key issue. Now if you eat krill, then generally it will not be a problem getting enough food. But whales and dolphins do not make tools in the conventional sense, so it's hard to see how an alien race of whales could be much of a threat if they are like whales on Earth.

This is a debate that is completely unwinnable! Like I said before the assumption that they are carbon based, water loving creatures that evolved the same as we did is very narrow and the total opposite would likely be more common. Now if you are saying they are coming here specifically for resources or something else we have then certainly they would probably be at least similar (or why the hell would they want our stuff?). I am talking a bigger picture of what could constitute "intelligent" life not just visitors here.

Originally Posted by echo419

If they possess the technology to travel here from where ever the hell out in space them it stands to reason they have far greater tech them we do. Thus weaponry we can't compete with.

Again making the assumption that they "think" like us. They could have zero concept of what fighting or weapons are. This is exactly why movies portray aliens as almost human. People could not grasp that they could be so radically different in appearance and action. It is simply human egocentricity that dictates the belief that since we developed as we did everything else did as well.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This is a debate that is completely unwinnable! Like I said before the assumption that they are carbon based, water loving creatures that evolved the same as we did is very narrow and the total opposite would likely be more common. Now if you are saying they are coming here specifically for resources or something else we have then certainly they would probably be at least similar (or why the hell would they want our stuff?). I am talking a bigger picture of what could constitute "intelligent" life not just visitors here.

Awww, Tcoat, giving up so quickly?

There is a "life" form on earth based on something other than carbon: the tobacco mosaic virus, which is based on silicon. It also does not technically "use" water, but must exist within a cell containing water. So silicon based life is not out of the question. A virus also doesn't fit the definition of "living" according to most biologists. They don't actually consume food, they can't reproduce independently of the host, they are made up only of DNA or RNA and a protein coat and have no organelles, it MUST hijack the DNA replication mechanism of the invaded cell to reproduce and the resulting replicated virus gets its protein coat from the host cell also. All viruses are fundamentally just a strand of genetic material.

With that notable exception, every living thing on Earth (from bacteria on up) is made of carbon and must have water to survive. This is the one great universal of life as we know it. It is reasonable to assume that other life in the universe is also carbon- (or perhaps silicon-) based and requires water.

With regard to size, which was the original question, any biology based alien species will be restricted fundamentally by the gravity of its home planet. It is the only constant that applies to everything. So aliens from a giant planet will not be larger, they will be much smaller or at least shorter. A gaseous life form would not be able to maintain its brain function (or body integrity) due to diffusion, so I can't see how it would become a life form in the first place.

One could consider the idea that a sentient life form could arise as a result of computer artificial intelligence. That is much more realistic as a threat to humans. It might even come from our own efforts.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by echo419

If they possess the technology to travel here from where ever the hell out in space them it stands to reason they have far greater tech them we do. Thus weaponry we can't compete with.

Again, extrapolating from what has occurred in the past, you might be right. Europeans in the post-Columbian colonization period (say, 1500-1900) tended to destroy any civilization with technically inferior weapons rather than show respect and understanding. With a highly advanced and non-empathetic alien civilization arriving with the intention of colonizing Earth, we would be swept before them like so much dust.

[Teseo]

Who cares about aliens, the humanity will die soon. We will have money but food resource not enough, also sun are expanding meaning it will exolode. When shit happens i hope to be 7 feet on the ground

[Special_K]

Originally Posted by echo419

If they possess the technology to travel here from where ever the hell out in space them it stands to reason they have far greater tech them we do. Thus weaponry we can't compete with.

Originally Posted by babydriver

Again, extrapolating from what has occurred in the past, you might be right. Europeans in the post-Columbian colonization period (say, 1500-1900) tended to destroy any civilization with technically inferior weapons rather than show respect and understanding. With a highly advanced and non-empathetic alien civilization arriving with the intention of colonizing Earth, we would be swept before them like so much dust.

According to the documentaries Falling Skies, Battle LA, etc, even superior weaponry and the decimation of our infrastructure wouldn't stop us from kicking their asses.