McLaren P1

[chrisl]

Where are you getting the top gear lap time from? They haven't announced it on the show yet.

As for this car? I'm not really a fan, sadly. It's an astonishing technical achievement, and incredibly fast, but I really don't like the looks. I still think the F1 is the best looking car McLaren has ever made. Of the current crop of hypercars, I think I'd take the 918 (which, despite being less powerful and heavier, outaccelerates the P1 both 0-62 and 0-124 based on the numbers above, though I do have some doubt about that 0-124 time for the McLaren - 9.4s sounds way too slow given its power and weight). It just looks a lot better to me, and I love the high revving naturally aspirated engine and all wheel drive (rather than the rear wheel drive and turbocharging of the McLaren). I'm also curious why McLaren still hasn't released a Nurburgring time - I would think that if they'd beaten Porsche's 6:58 (or was it 6:57?), they would be all over the place bragging about it.

[serialk11r]

The Nurburgring lap time I suspect they're not releasing since they want to try to get the best one possible and then show people that they beat Porsche by a lot. This car has WAY more downforce than the 918, which I think is ~500lbs max vs. 1300lbs here (at 160ish?). At 100mph it should be able to generate something like 600lbs of downforce, which is almost 1/5 of the weight of the car. I feel like 4WD torque vectoring isn't going to buy Porsche enough grip to beat that.

I am curious why they didn't try to increase the rev limit for the P1. The engine is a loose derivative of a Nissan racing engine that went well into the 5 digits for rpm, and the M838T or whatever it's called has a *tiny* 70mm stroke that in theory can handle 9000rpm A-okay. I think the P1 sounds pretty good with the opened up exhaust, but the Porsche sounds better, and letting it go to 9000 would make it competitive. BMW's 75mm stroke on the S65 was already conservative, seems like a waste to use such a short stroke when you're not using the top end's full potential. The piston speed this engine has is about the same as a K24 limited to 6200, and the accelerations the reciprocating components see is the same as an FA20 at its rev limit. 9000rpm would mean the piston acceleration is around the same as a K20 hitting 8000, and I'm sure they use lighter rods on these so the engine shouldn't break a sweat. 8500 is a little underwhelming when Ferrari and Porsche are both going over 9000 (over 9000!) with multiple cars (all the new Ferraris, the 911 GT3, etc.).

All that said, I do appreciate Porsche's effort to do more development on the electric propulsion side, getting that to mass production cars is important.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

The Nurburgring lap time I suspect they're not releasing since they want to try to get the best one possible and then show people that they beat Porsche by a lot. This car has WAY more downforce than the 918, which I think is ~500lbs max vs. 1300lbs here (at 160ish?). At 100mph it should be able to generate something like 600lbs of downforce, which is almost 1/5 of the weight of the car. I feel like 4WD torque vectoring isn't going to buy Porsche enough grip to beat that.

I agree, however the Porsche also has a much larger battery capacity and (from what I can tell) better ability to regen and keep the batteries charged - in the Chris Harris video, when he's talking to the McLaren guy, it sounds like they can't actually go flat out on full power all the way around the nordschleife, and instead they have to tune how much electric power they use to not run out of battery capacity (which would certainly handicap the P1). Assuming that's not too much of a handicap though, I would think (purely from specs alone) that the P1 should easily beat the 918 though, which is why I find it so curious that they haven't released a number yet.

Also, that is an interesting comment regarding the rev limit - I wonder if it just doesn't breathe as well at high RPM, possibly due to the turbos? I would think they would be able to get around that though, especially (as you said) with the LaFerrari hitting 9250 and the 918 hitting 9150rpm (admittedly both naturally aspirated).

(Out of curiosity, do you have a source for the 918 downforce figures? I was just trying to find some actual info on it, and I wasn't having much luck...)

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I agree, however the Porsche also has a much larger battery capacity and (from what I can tell) better ability to regen and keep the batteries charged - in the Chris Harris video, when he's talking to the McLaren guy, it sounds like they can't actually go flat out on full power all the way around the nordschleife...

(Out of curiosity, do you have a source for the 918 downforce figures? I was just trying to find some actual info on it, and I wasn't having much luck...)

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...NEWS/120319830
No idea if it's right. The Mclaren's wing is huge and the fully active suspension suggests it might ride low enough to generate significant ground effects in race mode. Also the Porsche's rear "hatch" area isn't going to be as aerodynamic. Also the McLaren has those complicated air intakes whereas Porsche just has a simple scoop, I am guessing that counts for something.

I forgot about the battery pack thing, it's true the Porsche has effectively more power but the McLaren still packs a solid 720hp or something without the electric boost, and besides on a highish speed circuit aerodynamics seems to be more important than power once you've got your traction control and stuff sorted out. I can't find Ariel Atom Ring times anywhere for some reason but I would bet that they're not *that* great despite the insane power/weight ratio since the aero sucks and hurts the performance (the V8 I suppose, 500hp is enough to propel many cars north of 200mph). I would really like to see an Atom with fenders and fairings everywhere though, it would be insanely fast.

[chrisl]

That article is something at least, but it does appear to date from very early in development, and a lot has changed since then. As for ground effect, I have no doubt that it has a large effect on both the McLaren and the Porsche - in fact, I would bet most of the Porsche's downforce (and probably a good part of the downforce on the P1) comes from the underbody, and not the wing.

[Coaster]

Astonished by the car. The laf can't outdo it.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SGlN8xYZiw"]McLaren P1 - exclusive on-track review of the world's ultimate hypercar - YouTube[/ame]

[Acree]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

I just wet myself...

[Guff]

God, as much as I want to be a skeptic, every single person that has been in this thing comes out with a look of astonishment, and I can't help but be very excited about this thing.

And despite the fact that I'll probably never sit in one, let alone drive one, I'm excited for the technology it brings to the table because it's all about that trickle-down tech...

[fatoni]

it amazes me how people will embrace things like kers, active suspension, active aero, sound generators, abs etc. and then when the computer is controlling the transmission, this forum has a heart attack because the drivers car is dead.

[akyp]

I have no doubt this is a very capable car, and the V8 turbo sounds great, but I would still take a F1 instead.

[CSG Mike]

I bet 99.9% of the haters for this car has never set foot in the exotics... let alone driven them. What about driving hard?

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by fatoni

it amazes me how people will embrace things like kers, active suspension, active aero, sound generators, abs etc. and then when the computer is controlling the transmission, this forum has a heart attack because the drivers car is dead.

Well, think about it for a second. KERS makes the car go faster, and once that energy is recovered the driver can actively engage it. Suspension is something you don't generally change from the driver's seat. Same with aero. And sound generators, well, I don't really see a whole lot of people jumping on the "we want a sound generator" bandwagon.. Still plenty of old timers out there that think ABS is bad, as well.

However, pressing in that clutch and being able to change the gear manually on your own from the driver seat is a lot of active involvement. And "driver's car", to some, I guess means as much direct involvement as possible.

[JPxM0Dz]

Yeah we won't see any BRZ/FR-S vs P1 or thinking about trading my BRZ/FR-S for a P1 threads

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I bet 99.9% of the haters for this car has never set foot in the exotics... let alone driven them. What about driving hard?

good point but i think that statement works for the lovers too. im fond of the car but if driving hard was a requisite to talk about it i dont think this thread would be very long either way.

Originally Posted by n2oinferno

Well, think about it for a second. KERS makes the car go faster, and once that energy is recovered the driver can actively engage it. Suspension is something you don't generally change from the driver's seat. Same with aero. And sound generators, well, I don't really see a whole lot of people jumping on the "we want a sound generator" bandwagon.. Still plenty of old timers out there that think ABS is bad, as well.

However, pressing in that clutch and being able to change the gear manually on your own from the driver seat is a lot of active involvement. And "driver's car", to some, I guess means as much direct involvement as possible.

you dont have to have a clutch pedal to control over the clutch or clutches. im not really speaking about the car but about how people try to provide rational evidence for irrational opinions. personally i dont like dcts but im not going to provide evidence as to why they are inferior because i dont think thats the case.