Any thoughts on my "mini" engineering and business plan.?

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Active suspension components plus sandy environment sound like a reliability challenge.

The only major difference between an MR damper and a regular damper is the fluid and the piston. In all other respects they're pretty much the same, so nothing new is being exposed to the environment.

...

After pondering on it a bit, I think you'd be better off developing an MR damper package for a production UTV. It seems like the dampers are what you are really interested in anyway. Constructing complete vehicles will take considerable space and initial investment in both tooling and design time. There are hundreds upon hundreds of parts even on something as simple as a dune buggy and you're going to need to spend time and money developing all of them, which is something that an electrical engineering degree will not prepare you for. And even if you did manage to get to series production, your market (and your profit margins) would not be particularly large.

Developing and manufacturing only the dampers has a bunch of benefits. The biggest, imo, is vastly reduced development time and startup cost. The second is the much larger potential for sales volume. There are a lot more people who would be willing to spend 2 or 3 grand on a set of badass dampers for their UTVs than there are people who would be willing to spend $10k+ on a brand new UTV that was built by some guy in a shed. There are racing leagues for production UTVs (low volume buggies not permitted), and racers love to have an edge over the competition. More importantly, the government uses UTVs, and the government loves to spend money. Then there's the fact that these platforms are already proven, so your dampers aren't going to be overshadowed by a potentially terrible chassis. More importantly, it gives you a reference point and a chance for real world testing and data aquisition before you even start your design process. And once you've built your prototypes, there are existing aftermarket alternatives that you can use as benchmarks.

[KidWonder]

Originally Posted by old greg

The only major difference between an MR damper and a regular damper is the fluid and the piston. In all other respects they're pretty much the same, so nothing new is being exposed to the environment.

...

After pondering on it a bit, I think you'd be better off developing an MR damper package for a production UTV. It seems like the dampers are what you are really interested in anyway. Constructing complete vehicles will take considerable space and initial investment in both tooling and design time. There are hundreds upon hundreds of parts even on something as simple as a dune buggy and you're going to need to spend time and money developing all of them, which is something that an electrical engineering degree will not prepare you for. And even if you did manage to get to series production, your market (and your profit margins) would not be particularly large.

Developing and manufacturing only the dampers has a bunch of benefits. The biggest, imo, is vastly reduced development time and startup cost. The second is the much larger potential for sales volume. There are a lot more people who would be willing to spend 2 or 3 grand on a set of badass dampers for their UTVs than there are people who would be willing to spend $10k+ on a brand new UTV that was built by some guy in a shed. There are racing leagues for production UTVs (low volume buggies not permitted), and racers love to have an edge over the competition. More importantly, the government uses UTVs, and the government loves to spend money. Then there's the fact that these platforms are already proven, so your dampers aren't going to be overshadowed by a potentially terrible chassis. More importantly, it gives you a reference point and a chance for real world testing and data aquisition before you even start your design process. And once you've built your prototypes, there are existing aftermarket alternatives that you can use as benchmarks.

Thank you for that great explanation :happy0180: Would a mechanical engineering degree be better? I always wanted to design and develop fun recreation vehicles that will be ahead of the game in technology. I also wanted to have a really advanced interior with Recaro seats,trail navigation,push start, and other gadgets. But if it can't be done, it can't be done. Does anyone have and other ideas?

[old greg]

Originally Posted by KidWonder

Would a mechanical engineering degree be better?

Depends, are you more interested in the gadgets or the gears?

[KidWonder]

Originally Posted by old greg

Depends, are you more interested in the gadgets or the gears?

I like gadgets and I want to Incorporate them into a Dune Buggy. And i'll befriend fellow Mechanical Engineers for the engine components and other mechanical components.

[KidWonder]

Originally Posted by old greg

Depends, are you more interested in the gadgets or the gears?

[KidWonder]

Originally Posted by Navi

I think the active suspension system would be too expensive compared to the price of the buggy.

It doesnt work when just 1 part makes up for 50% of the price.

I want the Dune buggies to be advanced in technology.

[Homemade WRX]

Having a good EE is a hard thing to come by.

[KidWonder]

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

Having a good EE is a hard thing to come by.

Huh? I'm not a genius, but I'm certainly good with logical thinking.

[KidWonder]

I would like to design and develop a dune buggy from the ground up that will have active suspension dampening. The suspension will adjust based on onboard computers which measure the velocity,terrain, and airborne height. I understand what you said and I will plan to sell it about maybe 11-15k. Also the dune buggy will be 2 seater. I`ll design and develop a concept in college and present the concept at motorshows,baja events, and even here. And I do have a buggy right now. Thanks for the answers Guys.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by KidWonder

I would like to design and develop a dune buggy from the ground up that will have active suspension dampening. The suspension will adjust based on onboard computers which measure the velocity,terrain, and airborne height. I understand what you said and I will plan to sell it about maybe 11-15k. Also the dune buggy will be 2 seater. I`ll design and develop a concept in college and present the concept at motorshows,baja events, and even here. And I do have a buggy right now. Thanks for the answers Guys.

What exactly do you mean by 'active'? Old Greg's reference to MR is not really active in the way what I was thinking, MR is active damping. (MR being Magnet...Rhe...something...) I was thinking along the lines of a real active suspension like the Lotus Active system that got banned in F1, which fully replaces the springs (except to maintain height with the system off and reduce some of the load required) with hydraulics, needs a separate high-pressure pump, etc...

[Rampage]

I raced off road buggies for six years. While your ambitions are noble, there is one tried and true rule for dune buggies. Simple is better!

One thing that consistently happens on buggies is that things break and need to be repaired. Having to fix complicated systems gets really expensive.

Just for an example: You mentioned that you wanted to put "gull-wing" cage doors on your design. Let me ask you; How do you get out of a buggy with those types of doors when you are upside down in a wash or gully? It is for that reason that buggies use nylon side nets that keep you and your body parts inside in the event of a rollover but that can be easily disengaged so you can exit the vehicle once the cartwheeling and barrel rolls stop. Simple and efficient!

In my opinion, active suspension would be too costly for the amount of benefit that it would bring to the table. Plus the amount of vibration and environmental hazards (water, mud, dust, sand grit) that it would be subjected to would make it prone to failure.

Having said that, if you think that you can overcome all these challenges such as cost, durability, weight and ease of use then more power to you. It is thinking "outside the box" that eventually leads to great success stories.