*PHASTEK* Perrin Tuned Vortech Supercharger Install Thread (3 Vehicles, 3 Kits)

[Huehuecoyotl]

I'd have to stop being such a frequent flyer at my dyno shop for better mpg, LOL...

[Jeff86]

Funny conversation. Boost is controlled with your foot no matter what system you have. Stay out of boost and you get stock mileage. Boosting adds air which of course requires more fuel. The WAY you drive your boosted car has everything to do with your mileage, and that's pretty much going to differ from driver to driver.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

I got a Prius for ya, if that doesnt cut it maybe that CRZ will do it for you?
Your Turbo budget and SC budgets are he same huh?... that youre drawing these fantastical 'conclusions' comparing 'kit's with these broad 'terms'? is that the case?

can you qualify your statements by telling us what turbo cars and what sc cars are in your garage at the moment?
what mods are you running? then lets see your fuel logs, and dynos...

april fools was a few days ago, wasnt it, so this better be a joke
My kit has better throttle response and a wider power band than the turbo 86 I drove
and others who are non biased agree, two different animals, if you ask me
what are your driving experiences you can share on our cars?

what turbo kit is in your frs or brz? do share..

WHAT ON EARTH is this obsession with MPG and power? if you cant afford the fuel you shouldn't be trying to make the power. MPG and HP mix as well as High HP Cars and infant car seats

and where are you getting you SC vs TC 'knowledge', ya must been hiding on this forum, cause I dont see your build thread
You wanna come on a SC thread and talk about how TCs are better?

really? she gets 26.5 mpg driving my car normally. I getting 24 unless I get ON IT when I see 22-23
I fail to see your point and argument @jamesm, not trying to spar with you, but I cant stand people talking down my kit, I got alot of performance AND MPG data to back up my positions here on this forum

Where is my Troll stamp?my forum hatchet? my duct tape? ahh, here is my popcorn
please educate us all more, unless ofcourse, youre really not sure of your positions, or dont have the means to back up what youre saying, it s time to back up a bit with your posts

(my 4 page wall of text has been edited down to avoid that ban hammer BS so I hope you can see I'm trying hell-a-hard to go 'easy' here)

im not 'trying to take down your kit'. my sister's s2k has a vortech and it's awesome, and i could care less either way what you prefer. i was correcting misinformation someone had posted stating that turbos are no more efficient and get similar gas mileage to a supercharger, all else equal. that's just not fact. the data posted up here showed a surprisingly significant drop in mpg, which drew my comment. i apologize if i've offended you lol.

to answer your question: i bought my fr-s 3 weeks ago. it's getting dropped off this afternoon for a turbo install. it's a gtx2867r, tial v-band housing, pretty standard stuff. prior to those i drove a couple beater turbo miatas, one decent one. a wrx before that, turbo dsms back in the day, nothing amazing or anything. i'm not special. i've been building cars my whole life, passed down from dad like most other people here.

we all have opinions, you don't agree with mine.

[King Tut]

I'm getting better MPG with my FBM turbo kit and Visconti tune than I did when I was NA. I have well over 2,000 miles on my kit as well.

[Mars2]

better Mpg on board computer or by old style methode with feeling up and calculating?

because with your bigger injector the On board computer mpg is fucked up as it count injector dutycycle to know how much gas was send.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Mars2

better Mpg on board computer or by old style methode with feeling up and calculating?

because with your bigger injector the On board computer mpg is fucked up as it count injector dutycycle to know how much gas was send.

Calculating. I am getting over 300 miles out of 10 gallons of gas.

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by Coheed

Remember that more power means more fuel. The drop in economy is 100% the fault of the driver, and enjoying the newfound power.

Originally Posted by Coheed

Making power uses fuel. Enough said. I've yet to own a car that got better mileage after I turbocharged it. And it has mostly to due with driving habits. However, if you are looking to improve economy, you should look elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

WHAT ON EARTH is this obsession with MPG and power? if you cant afford the fuel you shouldn't be trying to make the power.

Originally Posted by Foobar

Not enough data here to significantly prove one thing or another as far as MPG and the SC kit is concerned.

Hell, I've had that much variance on my NA car.

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

We must be living in an alternate universe lately, I can't agree with you more....

I mean, we are not talking about the cars now being at 8 MPG. We are talking at a slight reduction on MPG and its really besides the point. There are tradeoffs and sacrifices to be made. There is not point in boosting a car to not go into boost. Going into boost will consume more fuel. Was it the chicken or the egg???

Originally Posted by Jeff86

Funny conversation. Boost is controlled with your foot no matter what system you have. Stay out of boost and you get stock mileage. Boosting adds air which of course requires more fuel. The WAY you drive your boosted car has everything to do with your mileage, and that's pretty much going to differ from driver to driver.

All of these were quoted for significance.

Originally Posted by jamesm

the data posted up here showed a surprisingly significant drop in mpg, which drew my comment. i apologize if i've offended you lol.

Your words - the data posted up showed a significant drop in mpg. I'm not so sure that is a fair statement, or assessment of the data...so I thought it should be re-examined.

PRE-SUPERCHARGER INSTALL
1/5 - 22.76mpg
2/2 - 21.02mpg
2/9 - 24.32mpg
2/16 - 24.94mpg
2/23 - 23.10mpg

POST-SUPERCHARGER INSTALL
3/2 - 19.79mpg
3/9 - 24.11mpg
3/16 - 21.17mpg
3/23 - 23.39mpg

TEMPORARY N/A
4/2 - 24.57mpg

There were 3 separate occasions that he got lower mpg N/A (1/5, 2/2, 2/23) than his supercharged data points on 3/9 and 3/23. Even throwing out the "mostly highway driving" 24.11 data point, this is still significant, as the data point on 3/23 was still higher at 23.39mpg. Also, OF COURSE he is going to see a noticeable mpg bump while he is temporarily N/A...he knows the power he has become used to isn't there, so why bother pushing it? In fact, the average mpg using all of the data prior to the temporary N/A point (24.04 N/A vs. 22.11 S/C) is still less than 2mpg difference. Not to mention that includes the time immediately after the S/C install where everyone buries their foot at every single opportunity! If you throw that "OMG BOOST!" data point out, the difference is even smaller at 1.15mpg. the solid truth is that when you put additional air into the engine, you have to combine it with more fuel. The more you do that, the more mpg is affected. This is true for N/A, Supercharged, Turbocharged, etc. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions from the data...I just encourage you to actually look at all of the data first.

[jamesm]

i agree it's not as bad as it looks. it was the '21mpg' figure quoted in the post that grabbed my attention more than the graph. well, that and the fact that he stated he took it off because gas prices went up lol.

[F1point4]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i agree it's not as bad as it looks. it was the '21mpg' figure quoted in the post that grabbed my attention more than the graph. well, that and the fact that he stated he took it off because gas prices went up lol.

It is good discussion though.

I chose that estimation number based on my normal commute and driving habits. As stated I was averaging 24mpg before FI so a few points of drop isn't a big deal [to me]. I know some of us on here drive it gently/have mostly highway commutes so they can get 28-30mpg. If I was coming from 28 to 21 I may be in the same boat as some of the naysayers.

also FYI, I calculate my data points by using Trip A to measure distance between fillups, and divide by the amount of petrol the pump shows I put in.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i agree it's not as bad as it looks. it was the '21mpg' figure quoted in the post that grabbed my attention more than the graph. well, that and the fact that he stated he took it off because gas prices went up lol.

Ah ok I see what you're saying now. For clarity's sake, however, he removed the kit to send it back to Vortech to get the free upgrade. It had nothing to do with fuel economy. He just added that fuel prices were going up at the point that he removed the kit. One had nothing to do with the other.

[chadstyle]

I can't believe all this discussion over MPG when adding a SC or TC kit...REALLY??? Who cares about the MPG at that point??? If we were talking 911's here, would anyone even mention MPG? No, because people that have the money to mod cars like that don't care if it drinks gas at that point. I think its a much younger crowd on here and with that comes less experience, knowledge, and I hate to say it...MONEY.

The only numbers I care about after going FI are HP, TQ, 0-60...performance, not economy.

[2forme]

I know I'll only buy a 911 if they can get 40MPG with 400+ hp.

[AZFA20]

I have never really understood the whole MPG and PERFORMANCE argument myself or that there is even an argument at all. The main variable will ALWAYS be your foot no matter how you spin it. Just for example my road course car gets 33 MPG on the highway to the track but 4 sessions on the road course I get in the neighborhood of 5 MPG. Why...... my foot!

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Foobar

Ah ok I see what you're saying now. For clarity's sake, however, he removed the kit to send it back to Vortech to get the free upgrade. It had nothing to do with fuel economy. He just added that fuel prices were going up at the point that he removed the kit. One had nothing to do with the other.

oh cool. yeah, i wasn't aware of the whole compressor upgrade motivation.