Scion FR-S vs Mazda MX-5 Club Head-to-Head (Review and Video)

[TouchMyHonda]

Originally Posted by fatoni

its not the top of the line miata. its the mid tier miata that is equipped in a similar fashion as the frs. it just happens to be within $100 in price. also, they do have an frs with a bunch of special things. its called the brz

The brz is mechanically identical except for softer spring rates, which is not an advantage. I was referring purely to mechanical performance.

[Captain Insano]

Do Miata forums talk about the FRS/BRZ as much as this forum discusses Miatas? Same question for S2000s.

[Grimlock]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

Do Miata forums talk about the FRS/BRZ as much as this forum discusses Miatas? Same question for S2000s.

Miata.net does. There's even one guy that complains about the GT86 because it is slow, noisy, and has a cheap interior. But the Miata gets a pass for being slow, noisy, and having a cheap interior simply because it is a convertible.

I go over to miata.net every now and again to check in and it's always hilarious to read the BRZ/FR-S threads. On Miata.net I can count three or four of us with 86's off the top of my head.

[DKPJester]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

Do Miata forums talk about the FRS/BRZ as much as this forum discusses Miatas? Same question for S2000s.

Originally Posted by Grimlock

Miata.net does. There's even one guy that complains about the GT86 because it is slow, noisy, and has a cheap interior. But the Miata gets a pass for being slow, noisy, and having a cheap interior simply because it is a convertible.

I go over to miata.net every now and again to check in and it's always hilarious to read the BRZ/FR-S threads. On Miata.net I can count three or four of us with 86's off the top of my head.

I went to check out miata.net after reading this to see what the general feeling was and I think largely they talk about our cars like we talk about theirs. Mutual respect and all that. But the first thread was about this same article and I came across this gem:

"Actually the FRS/BRZ twins need to have their very own subforum --
kinda like we have NA, NB. NC, & ND. It sure would de-clutter the Car Talk forum.

Just sayin'."

So yeah....looks like they talk about our cars every once in a while

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by TouchMyHonda

The brz is mechanically identical except for softer spring rates, which is not an advantage. I was referring purely to mechanical performance.

Randy Pobst (and many others) would disagree with you - BRZ has more overall neutrality vs. tail-happy FR-S.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the stupid mouth of the brz is possibly a little worse than the current stupid grin on the miata..

Before I saw it in the flesh, I would have agreed with this. But having finally seen a few at the local car show this week, I think it's far less of a problem than it appears in photos, especially with a front plate on.

[TouchMyHonda]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Randy Pobst (and many others) would disagree with you - BRZ has more overall neutrality vs. tail-happy FR-S.

Spring rates that close don't make either setup and advantage over one or the other. Mutual vs tail happy is driver preference. The difference isn't that drastic.

[Sport-Tech]

Again, I'll take Randy's word on this - 4 time GT Challenge Champion, 2 X Le Mans class winner - he did faster laps of Willow in the BRZ due to better control at the limit (I am not claiming the difference was huge, but it's there, see his videos).

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by whaap

But, I also get the idea that one set of tires and it wouldn't be as close any more.

its not about laptimes or any number. the tires on the frs dont take away from the fun. if anything they add it. it wouldnt change the outcome of this comparo

Originally Posted by TouchMyHonda

The brz is mechanically identical except for softer spring rates, which is not an advantage. I was referring purely to mechanical performance.

Originally Posted by TouchMyHonda

Spring rates that close don't make either setup and advantage over one or the other. Mutual vs tail happy is driver preference. The difference isn't that drastic.

i would love for you to tell me about how much more different the club is from the sport or touring model since you seem to think springs and shocks "that close" dont give an advantage. what is it you think they do to the club? also, i think you mean neutral?

[Brzetto]

What if I like marine life, like the Manta Ray? The Manta Ray also has a very deadly tail, Steve Irwin found that out the hard way. Sad to say but most cars have a cartoony grin these days. If only the parking lights' color could be changed my BRZ might look evil at night.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by SubaruBRZLimited

What if I like marine life, like the Manta Ray? The Manta Ray also has a very deadly tail, Steve Irwin found that out the hard way. Sad to say but most cars have a cartoony grin these days. If only the parking lights' color could be changed my BRZ might look evil at night.

theres nothing wrong with liking marine life. i happen to like the styling of both of the cars very much. i dont think the brz will age as well as the miata but thats because its such a contemporary design and the twins have stayed truer to the concepts better than any car ive witnessed. imo, today the look from best to worst go frs, brz, miata. in ten years i would guess they flip

[TouchMyHonda]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Randy Pobst (and many others) would disagree with you - BRZ has more overall neutrality vs. tail-happy FR-S.

The twin ARE mechanically the same, you cannot argue that. The springs rates the the ONLY variance and it is a difference of 50-70 +- (max) LBS making the difference very very very slim. Noticeable to an experience driver at the while pushing limits, which you (and I mean you specificity) probably wont ever do at a race track or have ever experienced.

What I originally posted is in direct AGREEMENT with what Randy, your lover, would say.. I do not disagree with Mr. Randy nor was that even the point of my post. Way to get off topic by lack of comprehension. You are arguing a point that I never bough up, that I agree with.

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

Again, I'll take Randy's word on this - 4 time GT Challenge Champion, 2 X Le Mans class winner - he did faster laps of Willow in the BRZ due to better control at the limit (I am not claiming the difference was huge, but it's there, see his videos).

Again you bringing him up, his racing career, and his success with driving a BRZ better is invalid (and strange) and makes no argument or sense. The BRZ is more stable for him at higher speed. The 86 may be faster for some one who likes to kick out more around a turn. The difference in the springs rates is so small that its a CHARACTER change, not a true upgraded difference.

Someone had mentioned that the BRZ is equivalent to the Club Miata over what the 86 is to the base Miata in a performance stand point.... However that is incorrect. The club Miata has about a dozen ACTUAL upgrades over the base Miata.

The twins however are Mechanically the same (difference that small in spring rates is not an upgrade and is the ONLY difference), and one would not truly perform better over the other. Simply they would have a slight difference in characteristic with turn in.... A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE while at the limits of grip. Hence my use of the phrase, “drivers preference”.

The performance difference between the base Miata and Club Miata would ABSOLUTELY be noticeable and not arguable.

Originally Posted by fatoni

its not about laptimes or any number. the tires on the frs dont take away from the fun. if anything they add it. it wouldnt change the outcome of this comparo

I never mentioned anything about “numbers”.

Originally Posted by fatoni

i would love for you to tell me about how much more different the club is from the sport or touring model since you seem to think springs and shocks "that close" dont give an advantage. what is it you think they do to the club? also, i think you mean neutral?

The springs and shocks are replaced on the Base model of the Miata with a Bilsten shock and spring setup for the Club Miata.... THAT IS A HUGE ADVANTAGE over the Base model Miata shocks and springs. Thats not considering the FAR better rubber Mazda used on the Club over the base Miata. Clear advantage between the two models Club and Base. There is no clear advantage between the BRZ and 86.


You sir have taking my comparison of the BRZ springs to the 86's out of context because there is no true advantave of one over the other as I have explained in greater detail already.

THE POINT TO MY ORIGINAL POST (Try not to miss comprehend again): The Miata they tested against the 86 is not a standard Miata and a slightly unfair comparison due to the Miata having far more sophisticated upgraded items over the standard Miata. It would have made more sense to have been a comparison with a base Miata and a base 86.

If the 86's had a "Club" version like the Miata with upgraded shock and springs, much better tires, additional structural support braces, ect... This comparison would be totally different.


PS. My incorrect auto correct spelling on my phone doesn’t make me less correct.


It is safe to amuse that neither of you have real track experience, and simply haven’t ever really pushed a car at their true limits while testing multiple suspension rates and shock valve setting. Or, you both just completely understood me wrong.


I find it funny that I come to the defense of the Twins on the Twins forum, to only have Twin forum members argue with me about nonsense and completely miss the point HA.

[red_comet]

I have to agree with motortrend's overall conclusion... the MX-5 is definitely more fun, but the FR-S is a far more USEABLE tool for the average person... I had a two seater and sold it to buy the FR-S cuz I bought a dog. It's the perfect balance for me, and I imagine for tons of other people who can't afford to have a weekend toy.

I remember when I was shopping for an 07 MX-5, and how fun it was... I just hate convertibles.

Honestly, my choice of car before I bought the FR-S was between a used RX-8 R3 and the Scion. Too bad the RX-8 had a rotary... loved the chassis and door layout.

[red_comet]

Originally Posted by red_comet

I have to agree with motortrend's overall conclusion... the MX-5 is definitely more fun, but the FR-S is a far more USEABLE tool for the average person... I had a two seater and sold it to buy the FR-S cuz I bought a dog. It's the perfect balance for me, and I imagine for tons of other people who can't afford to have a weekend toy.

I remember when I was shopping for an 07 MX-5, and how fun it was... I just hate convertibles.

Honestly, my choice of car before I bought the FR-S was between a used RX-8 R3 and the Scion. Too bad the RX-8 had a rotary... loved the chassis and door layout.

Speaking of which, when the hell is Mazda gonna come out with a cylinder-powered, hardtop 4 seat sports car? MX-7, anyone? It'd be le best. Stop missing the bus, Mazda.