Are you willing to push your car off a cliff?

[GTM_Challenge]

I think the better thing to ask yourself is the risk vs. the reward.

Could something happen? Yes. Could you also be perfectly fine? Yes.

I tracked my S2000 once when I had a lien on it still. I payed it off shortly after and it has now become a track only car. Ive done some body damage to it twice, each time it happens I just laugh about it, fix it and move on.

Once you wreck, you can't do anything about it, so why get worked up over it, right? That's just stupid.

I honestly don't think insurance companies should cover you when you're on track. Special track day insurance, sure, but to have your street coverage cover your track time without any additional increase doesn't seem appropriate.

That's like a smoker paying the same for health insurance as a non-smoker (at least here in the USA).

[rice_classic]

Tracking a car has inherent risks but you can significantly reduce them with preparation, behavior and choice.

Prep:
Car prep: so things don't go wrong at speed.
Driver prep: remembering what you're there for aka: it's not a competition.

Behavior:
Acting like and adult on track.
Not driving beyond your talent.
Listening and taking instruction and knowing when to seek it.

Choice:
Choice what to prep, how to behave and where and who to play with.
Insurance provider: Will I be insured on track, if not am I still willing to play?
Track choice: Is there more than one track available for me to play at and which track is inherently more dangerous in the case of an "incident"?
Club choice: Some clubs are Liaise-Fair when it comes to safety but most are very safety focused. Get some feedback from folks who have tracked with various clubs and inquire to how they run their operation and make your choice.


At the end of the day, it's all about fun and safety.

If you find yourself needing to "compete" at a track day then you should go home or the organization should send you home.


Example of "clearly having fun"... But maybe don't be this guy. NEMESIS!!!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPfxtJ8SQgk"]Porsche vs Mustang NEMESIS!!!!! - YouTube[/ame]




And just for kicks and giggles:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8"]Trackday Comedy - FLAT OUT - YouTube[/ame]

[ayau]

When you have a lien and you wreck your car, does your lien holder want you to pay the rest of the amount, or can you still continue to make monthly payments? I'm guessing that you'll need to pay for the entire car since it lost majority of its value.

[BlaineWasHere]

Why is it hard to understand that track insurance is available at a fair price?!?

You spend $25k on the car, another few grand in track prep, and you can't spend another $200 for HPDE insurance?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

Why is it hard to understand that track insurance is available at a fair price?!?

You spend $25k on the car, another few grand in track prep, and you can't spend another $200 for HPDE insurance?

What's on the fine line though? How much are you covered for? Is it insurance for damage to the track, damage to the car, 2-5 million lawsuit filed by the grieving half-sister of the dude you ran over?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

Why is it hard to understand that track insurance is available at a fair price?!?

You spend $25k on the car, another few grand in track prep, and you can't spend another $200 for HPDE insurance?

You put too much faith in insurance companies.

[johhnc479]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I don't think the "push your car off a cliff" metaphor is appropriate. Because if it was true then you shouldn't be driving your car at all.

Accidents at race tracks occur 80% of driver error, 10% weather,4% mechanical and 1% dumb luck.

I also don't like the "push your car off a cliff" metaphor - that implies you intend to total your car. Contact eventually happens to most who track their car on a regular basis. Some total their car first time out, some have a minor scuff on track day #300. You have to accept that as a possibility and plan accordingly.

7th - I'm assuming there's no science behind your accident rate study? Short of driving into an unexpected blizzard or dense fog, I'm not sure how weather would "cause" an accident. And your rate only adds up to 95%.

After around ten years of tracking my 944, I'm going through that decision all over again. Taking the more important personal injury risk out of the discussion, here's my thought:

Wad up (or blow up) my 944 - that woud sort of suck.
Wad up (or blow up) my Boxster - that would suck even more
Wad up (or blow up) my FR-S - that would suck even more, plus I'd have to figure out plan B to get to work on a regular basis.

[7thgear]

of course my stats are made up and entirely anecdotal,



by weather i mean rain days at the track. Some people refuse to go out.

Also a wet day at the track can be freighting because not only do you have to keep the "wet line" at all times, sometimes that wet line crosses the dry line and you get some funky results.

A wet day at the track will test your car handling skills more than anything else.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Tt3Sheppard

I'm curious as to how many on here are tracking and also have a lien on the car. I think I'll be pushing mine at about 70-80%. Limerock is pretty unforgiving with mistakes.

I'm curious as well as long as people don't mind sharing that information.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I use lockton affinity for HPDE insurance. I've talked to people who have had claims and haven't had any issues but thankfully I haven't had to make a claim yet. I also don't drive 10/10ths in my street cars.

+1 for Lockton HDPE insurance

[BlaineWasHere]

Originally Posted by ayau

You put too much faith in insurance companies.

What are you talking about? Buying tack day insurance specifically insuring ON TRACK collisions with other cars or barriers.

I'm NOT talking about my regular policy that covers my car in the road.

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by BlaineWasHere

Why is it hard to understand that track insurance is available at a fair price?!?

You spend $25k on the car, another few grand in track prep, and you can't spend another $200 for HPDE insurance?

$200 for HPDE insurance for a day is the same as the cost of that same HPDE event that you're running. Depending on your situation, thats another car payment.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

I am not willing to push my car off a cliff, but also, i'm not racing competitively. I'm running my car in HPDE and there isn't a lot of pushing for position or driving 10/10s to pass on the outside of the carousel or anything. In fact, they dissuade people from passing in the corners and suggest waiting for the straights. I suppose the primary things i have to worry about are my cars' systems holding up. There are other variables, but i don't think it's as dangerous as competitive driving.

That varies by area and group. PCA locally does the same, straights only for passing for novice and solo (advanced may be different, I forget). Chin Motorsports on the other hand is pass anywhere with a point by for anything beyond regular solo (intermediate and higher).

I'm personally completely comfortable passing and being passed anywhere on track, including hairpins. You get comfortable with it quickly if you ever do wheel to wheel racing.

[Hanakuso]

Originally Posted by ayau

You put too much faith in insurance companies.

I don't think he is. It's smart to insure something that is valuable to yourself whether you own or have a lien on it. Although you have to understand what the policy is covering and what it doesn't.