A question regarding wheel/suspension aptitude.

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You have to balance output with grip to find the ideal setup for your application. For most people, this involves wider rims and tires. Remember, this car likely has substantially more output than your FWD. The fast FWD guys I know all run large rubber (usually the largest that will fit or allowed by the rules) to match their output (B18, built K20/K24, etc.)

One could argue that oversteer with this car is a setup or driving error, and using an alignment and aero to bandaid that doesn't eliminate the source of the oversteer.

Well, to be honest, my FWD has better power-to-weight-ratio and torque-to-weight-ratio than the stock FRS.
My PTWR = 190hp@2400lbs: 12.6 / 140tq@2400lbs: 17.1
FRS PTWR= 200hp@2700lbs: 13.5 / 151tq@2700lbs: 17.9
Now, those are just numbers and the FRS has well proven that it doesn't play the numbers game.

Forgive me if this comes off as stupid, but i've done the aero/suspension tweaking in Forza 3 and 4 and it's done me really well. (the concept made sense in my head so i tried it in the game and it worked.) This in itself is not much of a credential, seeing as it's just a game. I concede that.

Although, i'm not necessarily trying to delete the oversteer completely-- a little can be useful for rotating the car. In your post you mentioned FWD guys you know keeping their cars loose; that's a typical thing to do in FWD. You stiffen up the rear sway bar, raise the PSi, and add a little toe out and you can typically rotate like a champ with a slight oversteer and lift the inside rear off the ground.

My whole assertion was merely to rid the car of any excess oversteer. I just feel like there is something to be gained by the lesser unsprung weight. Also, i'm setting aside the rules by which SCCA and NASA guys have to abide by. Please rebut as though we're not penalized by such modifications.

[CSG Mike]

What is the ultimate goal? Under what kind of conditions are you driving?

To me, the was was never very loose; I'm pretty much WOT everywhere, and any rear end action is a direct result of driver input, at least, on a stock FRS. If you keep that rear tucked in, it's FAST.

The larger wheels aren't stabilizing the car. Rather, they're increasing the cornering limits, and driven the same, effectively "more stable". Sure, you could make suspension changes to make the car less pushy. You could also play with aero.

I'd be wary of making any drastic aero changes to the car, as its already rather underpowered.

Then again, I seem to have a bias toward loose cars. I think the stock FRS understeers (and it does at terminal; oversteer is always driver induced in my observations).

I suppose the best way to figure this out is to determine what you consider excess oversteer, as each driver's preference is different.

[Asterisked Accolade]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What is the ultimate goal? Under what kind of conditions are you driving?

To me, the was was never very loose; I'm pretty much WOT everywhere, and any rear end action is a direct result of driver input, at least, on a stock FRS. If you keep that rear tucked in, it's FAST.

The larger wheels aren't stabilizing the car. Rather, they're increasing the cornering limits, and driven the same, effectively "more stable". Sure, you could make suspension changes to make the car less pushy. You could also play with aero.

I'd be wary of making any drastic aero changes to the car, as its already rather underpowered.

Then again, I seem to have a bias toward loose cars. I think the stock FRS understeers (and it does at terminal; oversteer is always driver induced in my observations).

I suppose the best way to figure this out is to determine what you consider excess oversteer, as each driver's preference is different.

The goal is just to make a very competent car for HPDE and Open-Track. I am not competitive and don't care about comparing times. However, improving my own lap times and/or making the car more intuitive, fluid, and/or responsive.

Also, thank you for your responses-- they have been educational, non-biased and overall pleasurable.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Asterisked Accolade

The goal is just to make a very competent car for HPDE and Open-Track. I am not competitive and don't care about comparing times. However, improving my own lap times and/or making the car more intuitive, fluid, and/or responsive.

Also, thank you for your responses-- they have been educational, non-biased and overall pleasurable.

A wing will make high speed tracks easier, while making the car bias toward understeer. Before putting on a wing, I'd ask, does the rear end ever want to actually come out during a high speed corner?

The "corrections" are to correct the rear getting loose, but the rear is getting loose because I'm testing the front traction (this was the first hot lap I have ever done at this track in the BRZ).

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yik-oAVm3U"]BRZ Willow Springs International Raceway 1:38 - YouTube[/ame]

Turn 2 is over 85 mph, and Turn 8 is over 120.

Zero aero, stock suspension.

[Asterisked Accolade]

Yeah wow, the car seemed well planted nearly the entire time. Stock wheel/tire size as well?