Tein Active EDFC?? Yes please :)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by wu_dot_com

i am not doubting your findings. however, the shock to shock adjustment knob variation may have a larger range of inconsistency than it seems.

were you able to get shock dyno results for those click adjustments?

also were you able to get before and after comparison for those click adjustments for damping vs rebound after a few track days?

as with any hydraulic valves, tolerance, response time, seal wear, leakage, and erosion are all part of the equation.

From my experience in repair and overhaul aircraft flight control hydraulics, you simply cannot assume the performance of any hydraulic systems unless you have position feedback. This is why most control hydraulics with a performance (damping, rebound, speed, etc) requirements needs a position sensors like LVDT or potentiometer to compensate the performance deterioration.

I don't deny that each click is not a linear change in damping. However, a change is still a change.

No we don't have a shock dyno to quantify the damping change in every click through the adjustment range. However, I'd venture that my butt dyno is an effective, albeit crude tool for measuring the change

As with any other mechanical component on the car, dampers are a wear and tear item. That's why rebuild/revalve services are offered, at least for the Teins.

As we both know, tolerances and guidelines for aircraft are significantly stricter than cars...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fatoni

i understand that there can be an ideal shock setting for each corner. imo, that is more of a bandaid for not being able to have enough travel but thats not really doable in some cases. i would wager that recessed top hats and helper springs would make a car faster than this electronic wizardry. for smooth surfaces i can see how this may or may not provide a benefit (i would wager that any improvements could be disregarded in the margin of error). the issue i see is in the high speed performance of a shock. anything over 3ft/sec and have doubts that a computer can physically turn the knob so that it is adjusted during the event and not after it.

i like the higher end tein products a lot but i think the issue is not in the fact that you wont find a shock setting that works, its that (in this price range) you dont have any sort of repeatability in shock setting. the damping profile that you have at a shock setting of 10 (arbitrary) coming from 15 is probably not going to have the same dyno when you are coming from a setting of 5. the vavling adjustments seem to be a tool to fine tune the shocks to eachother and to the spring. without repeatability and without active suspenion monitoring, i dont think this will provide too much benefit. in theory, theory and practice are the same. in practice, they are not. i will be curious to see what actual testing proves.

How would you suggest fixing this?



This is on stock suspension, which has a TON of droop, as you can imagine.

[xwd]

Duh, don't run over the curbs. .

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

How would you suggest fixing this?



This is on stock suspension, which has a TON of droop, as you can imagine.

haha touche. i thought is was understood that we are talking about aftermarket suspension (since this topic is about tein) where the spring rates are significantly higher. its common for race suspensions to use shortened shock bodies. the curb thing is a perfect example of how things like helper springs will give you enough droop travel to stay on the ground and how modified tophats will allow for more compression while staying off bumpstops.

i dont know if the edfc would be able to fix that in any capacity because it seems to make adjustments based on an accelerometer in the car so i dont think it would be able to help with the curb thing in any capacity, let alone as good simple mechanical solutions.

[CSG Mike]

Grrr, there no pics of the BRZ at that same turn. This is a perfect example of where active damping can assist.

With my "normal" track setting ( 5 compression, 6 rebound) , I get the same result, where two wheels lift, and I'm effectively putting no power down. Landing form that always results in a little bit of looseness; I'm WOT before I catch the air, and I'm WOT when I land (poor diff...) During testing, we did note that anything softer than 8 on rebound resulted in no air. We'll ignore crosstalk for this example; it's there but not significant enough to matter here, and we were trying a relatively small range of settings during fine tuning.

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Grrr, there no pics of the BRZ at that same turn. This is a perfect example of where active damping can assist.

With my "normal" track setting ( 5 compression, 6 rebound) , I get the same result, where two wheels lift, and I'm effectively putting no power down. Landing form that always results in a little bit of looseness; I'm WOT before I catch the air, and I'm WOT when I land (poor diff...) During testing, we did note that anything softer than 8 on rebound resulted in no air. We'll ignore crosstalk for this example; it's there but not significant enough to matter here, and we were trying a relatively small range of settings during fine tuning.

Would this also be a good example of why for the track, stiffer sways should be a secondary tuning tool to spring and damper settings? On the street and below about 80% capability sways are a great way to get a nice flat cornering car without making things overly harsh, but on the track at the limit too much sway in relation to spring stiffness can cause lifting of inside tires.

Nathan

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Grrr, there no pics of the BRZ at that same turn. This is a perfect example of where active damping can assist.

With my "normal" track setting ( 5 compression, 6 rebound) , I get the same result, where two wheels lift, and I'm effectively putting no power down. Landing form that always results in a little bit of looseness; I'm WOT before I catch the air, and I'm WOT when I land (poor diff...) During testing, we did note that anything softer than 8 on rebound resulted in no air. We'll ignore crosstalk for this example; it's there but not significant enough to matter here, and we were trying a relatively small range of settings during fine tuning.

how does the edfc adjust for things like curbs and bumps if it cant even detect them? as i reread that it makes me sound like a douche. that isnt my intention. i just dont see how it would work.

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by fatoni

how does the edfc adjust for things like curbs and bumps if it cant even detect them? as i reread that it makes me sound like a douche. that isnt my intention. i just dont see how it would work.

It doesn't. It's only adjusting based on acceleration/deceleration, and speed (if you have the GPS add on.)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fatoni

how does the edfc adjust for things like curbs and bumps if it cant even detect them? as i reread that it makes me sound like a douche. that isnt my intention. i just dont see how it would work.

That's what we want to test. Not sure if its a 2d or 3d accelerometer. If it's 3d...

Ideally, I'd like to be able to dial it in by GPS location... but that's not listed as a feature

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

Would this also be a good example of why for the track, stiffer sways should be a secondary tuning tool to spring and damper settings? On the street and below about 80% capability sways are a great way to get a nice flat cornering car without making things overly harsh, but on the track at the limit too much sway in relation to spring stiffness can cause lifting of inside tires.

Nathan

It's purely damping and coilover setup (preload, height, droop).

On a side note, we're on stock sways. Our car is VERY simple... you could sum it up as coilvers, brakes, rims, tires, axleback. Nothing else. No bracing, bushings, gutting, weight reduction, etc.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's what we want to test. Not sure if its a 2d or 3d accelerometer. If it's 3d...

Ideally, I'd like to be able to dial it in by GPS location... but that's not listed as a feature

well ill be looking forward to the results. especially since your car seems to be about the things i value (the whole moderation, balance, fun, connection ect.)

[IMOA]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's what we want to test. Not sure if its a 2d or 3d accelerometer. If it's 3d...

Ideally, I'd like to be able to dial it in by GPS location... but that's not listed as a feature

Kind of an oddly missing feature. I would have thought that with GPS and accelerometers some sort of track mapping feature so you could change the settings for entry and exit of each corner on a mapped track would really open up the potential.

[RallySport Direct]

When I first heard about this, I fantasized about it using GPS and a G-sensor with some logic. For example, as you go round and round the track and the suspension is adjusting, it will remember the settings from the last lap and each corner and make adjustments to achieve greater and greater G's though a particular corner. Basically trying to find you the best setting per any given corner, assuming that the line is the same lol. A boy can dream

Thanks,
Rick

[neutron256]

I think some people are developing unreasonable expectations for this product, especially in its price range.

From reading all the descriptions it looks like all the GPS does is allow adjustments based on speed. Im not sure why they didn't just connect to the OBDII port like Tanabe's system does. Feeding location data and adjusting settings based on track position is orders of maganatude more complex then what this product seems to do.

3d Accelerometers would be great too, but would require tons of fine tuning for the specific car if you wanted it to react to ever bump and dip in the road. Every car would respond differently and I doubt the servos could even adjust quickly enough to be effective. This is why newer high end systems use rheomagnetic dampers because they can adjust almost instantly.

I'm looking forward to this system for what it is, if you're looking for more then I would get used to disappointment.