Getting shock dynos for your shocks

[Silverpike]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

This is ideal, whenever I'm at the track and have conversations with suspension gurus, they usually laugh even at what we consider to be high end shocks. The dyno tests are important but really, what you are looking for is an overall amount of matching you get from a particular manufacturer. The Gurus I've spoken to basically lay it out from what the've seen come across their dynes as Bilsteins and Konis are "acceptable", KW as a step up, and then kits like BC, out of China as totally off the wall not matching at all. They've actually tested some of the super cheapo ones and found that their "adjustment" knobs did not yield changes in the dyno at all.

These Guru's also have said in a given test, the adjustments are not linear either. For instance you might think that a shock with 6 settings would have 6 even increments, this is not usually the case. The first click might be a 50% change and then over the other 5 settings 10% each.

For street driving and even non-pro level racing and for the purposes of this forum, you are likely not to notice an un-matched set of shocks. Our rule of thumb in terms of shocks/struts over the years of seeing what works and which ones last the longest etc...

Shocks/Struts-
KYB GR2/ExcelG- Near stock replacement with slight upgrade in terms of stiffness
KYB AGX- Entry Level adjustable shocks, good value for the money.
Tokico- Mid-level adjustable shocks, good feel and usually come as complete kits rather than inserts like the Konis
Bilsteins- Top Level non-adjustable setup, great support and durable units.
Konis- Top Level adjustable setup, Lifetime Warranty, durable units. Overall these would be the last stop before needing coilovers. Very European car feel.

Coilovers-
BC/Stance/Etc- Great if you need a particular "look" or "drop" or need to have a hella flush. We would rate these down near the GR2 level or possibly worse in terms of safety and drivability.
KW- Entry level coilovers, these would be good for track days and even entry level racing. These are what we would suggest for 95% of the users out there short of track whores and racers
AST/Moton- Racing and serious tracker shocks, these are usually well beyond the pocketbook of your average weekend track junkie, but are probably the best setup you'll get for subies.

Hopefully this helps out. If you want a good shock dyno guy, shoot us an e-mail and I can hook you up with our guy out on Long Island who is one of the foremost gurus in the suspension world.

This pretty much matches my experience exactly. I had AST-5100s on my WRX for awhile, but the spring rate was too high for a DD so I took them off. Feal did a revalve of the JDM struts for me and a custom rebuild at the same time, and that's what I'm running now. Very good setup IMHO.

For street drivers, I would go with a set of Koni Yellows with a good custom valving. A custom valving requires that each strut be dynoed anyways.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Silverpike

This pretty much matches my experience exactly. I had AST-5100s on my WRX for awhile, but the spring rate was too high for a DD so I took them off. Feal did a revalve of the JDM struts for me and a custom rebuild at the same time, and that's what I'm running now. Very good setup IMHO.

For street drivers, I would go with a set of Koni Yellows with a good custom valving. A custom valving requires that each strut be dynoed anyways.

aren't the konis designed for the BRZ/FRS considered custom valved?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by ayau

aren't the konis designed for the BRZ/FRS considered custom valved?

They are valved to spec for the car, yes. They are not "custom" in the sense that you provided the specs you wanted. FEAL provides a custom valving service. Another way to put it: all Koni yellows for the BRZ are OTS (off-the-shelf) valved; pick up one box and it has the same valving as a box sold on the other side of country.

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by Silverpike

This pretty much matches my experience exactly. I had AST-5100s on my WRX for awhile, but the spring rate was too high for a DD so I took them off. Feal did a revalve of the JDM struts for me and a custom rebuild at the same time, and that's what I'm running now. Very good setup IMHO.

For street drivers, I would go with a set of Koni Yellows with a good custom valving. A custom valving requires that each strut be dynoed anyways.

Ah yes, I need to add FEAL to our list. We've sent out several sets to them and had great results!

-Mike Paisan


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
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[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

They are valved to spec for the car, yes. They are not "custom" in the sense that you provided the specs you wanted. FEAL provides a custom valving service. Another way to put it: all Koni yellows for the BRZ are OTS (off-the-shelf) valved; pick up one box and it has the same valving as a box sold on the other side of country.

Yup, they are custom generic for a particular vehicle. All units should be within some % of the spec Koni designates for it.

Custom valving is considered as you said where you give the shock rebuilder your specs and they rebuild it for you.

-Mike Paisan


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[ayau]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

They are valved to spec for the car, yes. They are not "custom" in the sense that you provided the specs you wanted. FEAL provides a custom valving service. Another way to put it: all Koni yellows for the BRZ are OTS (off-the-shelf) valved; pick up one box and it has the same valving as a box sold on the other side of country.

and wouldn't OTF valving be adequate assuming your BRZ is close to stock specs? for example, the only thing you're changing are the shocks/springs.

is custom valving geared towards people who run extremely high spring rates (10 kg/mm+)?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Yup, they are custom generic for a particular vehicle. All units should be within some % of the spec Koni designates for it.

Custom valving is considered as you said where you give the shock rebuilder your specs and they rebuild it for you.

-Mike Paisan


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

got it. thanks for the clarification.

if you're needing custom valving, wouldn't you already be looking at ohlins/penske/jrz shocks?

[OrbitalEllipses]

I can't say with any specificity what spring rate they're made for, only that they're made for higher spring rates. You get custom valving when you like the damper, but want it to perform in a different, more specific to you needs manner. For some this means Penske or the like, but I'm willing most of us can't afford that kind of gear. Hence a rebuild on some dampers; generally you wouldn't buy new dampers to rebuild.

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I can't say with any specificity what spring rate they're made for, only that they're made for higher spring rates. You get custom valving when you like the damper, but want it to perform in a different, more specific to you needs manner. For some this means Penske or the like, but I'm willing most of us can't afford that kind of gear. Hence a rebuild on some dampers; generally you wouldn't buy new dampers to rebuild.

To even further this, on our 1994 Legacy Turbo road race car we built back in the day, we did 1/2 of our first season on Konis before switching over to coilovers on the car. Certain classes require you to use standard style struts/shocks, even if you are using inserts, or they bump you up to a higher class if you run coilovers v. shocks/struts. In those cases you would definitely benefit from having custom valving done on Konis. I've seen several street driven cars who are avid trackers who have had their Konis rebuilt to their specs to perform better for them during track days.

-Mike Paisan


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by ayau

and wouldn't OTF valving be adequate assuming your BRZ is close to stock specs? for example, the only thing you're changing are the shocks/springs.

The short answer would be yes, as a track instructor, we like to see as little modifications to the vehicle as possible. The more you modify the car to be fast, the less you modify your mind to be fast. So a good set of dampers, springs, sways, brakes and tires are the only mods you should need until you've gotten to a fairly high level of track ability.

-Mike Paisan


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
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[ayau]

it looks like the konis should be available soon.

from koni's website:



the fronts are inserts and the rears are direct bolt ons. i recall someone saying that koni will eventually make strut housings for the front.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by ayau

it looks like the konis should be available soon.

from koni's website:



the fronts are inserts and the rears are direct bolt ons. i recall someone saying that koni will eventually make strut housings for the front.

Correct, fronts still require cutting up your stock damper bodies, rears are full replacement. People have been saying that for ages...

FWIW, I know @Sam Strano and @Turn in Concepts are already pre-selling Konis. Others may be as well.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by ayau

and wouldn't OTF valving be adequate assuming your BRZ is close to stock specs? for example, the only thing you're changing are the shocks/springs.

is custom valving geared towards people who run extremely high spring rates (10 kg/mm+)?

Most likely OTS valving will work for any street setup so usually it's when your spring rate exceeds your dampers ability to control the spring. The opposite can be true, running Koni Race yellows with normal drop springs can result in a very overdamped setup so you'd revalve for lower rate. Of course, no one does that because you should have just picked sport dampers instead

[AZP Installs]

Originally Posted by ayau

it looks like the konis should be available soon.

from koni's website:



the fronts are inserts and the rears are direct bolt ons. i recall someone saying that koni will eventually make strut housings for the front.

They will be shipping in March, from our conversations with Koni. At this time they are not planning on offering the fronts in housings. However we are waiting to find out pricing on getting housings and are planning on offering a pre-assembled kit for folks.

-Mike Paisan


11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"