Gazoo GRMN Sports FR Concept Twin Charged 325HP Teased Ahead of 2013 Tokyo Auto Salon

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

How would it be a downgrade badged as a Scion? Its still Toyota, thats like saying the FR-S is downgraded because its Scion. Ill take Scion any day of the week if its the same as its Japan Toyota counterpart, Pure price alone makes it worth it.

Let put it this way, the world that sees the Supra now doesn't fit the current Scion mission statement. Scion is about offering Toyota reliability to the younger market who are looking for affordability and customization. Which range from 16-25 old, stretching the average to include 30s now for the FR-S.

The FR-S sold in america wasn't exactly a downgrade over its original GT86 as its original intent was to be affordable, fun, and customizable. Not much needed to be done to allow the FRS to be sold as a Scion.

A MKV supra however needs to offer equal or greater performance than its previous model to be considered a successor, a while being competitive against its target market rivals. Meaning your looking at a Toyota sports car in the $50,000-$60,000+ range.

To allow the MKV supra be sold as a Scion, a few things would happen.
1. The Supra would be downgraded from its original concept to offer affordability to its main target audience.
2. Scion would have to alter its mission statement to include the Supra, which could be a step backwards for the future of Scion.

I could see any future Celica and the MR2 being sold as a Scion. But the Supra has to much heritage riding on it to be placed as a Scion Lineup.

[Ricepuddin]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Let put it this way, the world that sees the Supra now doesn't fit the current Scion mission statement. Scion is about offering Toyota reliability to the younger market who are looking for affordability and customization. Which range from 16-25 old, stretching the average to include 30s now for the FR-S.

The FR-S sold in america wasn't exactly a downgrade over its original GT86 as its original intent was to be affordable, fun, and customizable. Not much needed to be done to allow the FRS to be sold as a Scion.

A MKV supra however needs to offer equal or greater performance than its previous model to be considered a successor, a while being competitive against its target market rivals. Meaning your looking at a Toyota sports car in the $50,000-$60,000+ range.

To allow the MKV supra be sold as a Scion, a few things would happen.
1. The Supra would be downgraded from its original concept to offer affordability to its main target audience.
2. Scion would have to alter its mission statement to include the Supra, which could be a step backwards for the future of Scion.

I could see any future Celica and the MR2 being sold as a Scion. But the Supra has to much heritage riding on it to be placed as a Scion Lineup.

I'd put money (if i had any) on the next Supra being a Lexus


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[RyleyMA61]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

Yes and the MKI and the MKII were based off the Celica of the time. Toyota's really big on looking to their past for inspiration and direction right now. There is nothing preventing them from basing the MKV on the GT86 platform. I don't know why everyone hears Supra and assumes that it has to be a MKIV type vehicle which in many peoples opinion was an aberration and strayed far from the original direction of the Celica-Supra line of vehicles.

Despite the marketing hype about the FT-86 being a Hachiroku throwback, it's really a RWD Celica reboot and bringing out a higher performance more luxurious variant with slightly different body styling would totally be in-line with what Toyota has done historically with their sportscars.

made a lot of sense here.

the first celica was a cheap, fun, good-looking coupe. very similar to the 86 - much more a spiritual successor to the original celica concept rather than the ae86 - but they've run with the ae86 theme as it has more of a cult status for marketing. Plus not many people will remember a TA22 GT or GTV, equipeed with the wicked 2T-G...

and yes, the supra "Celica XX" was based on the xA4x and the xA6x chassis... which the MA61 also shared with the MZ10 soarer.

the new 'supra' platform will definately be based off an existing platform - it makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised to see it based on a lexus platform, such as the IS or the new LF-LC concept.

Historically the soarer and supra have been chassis twins, why not do it again? But make it go GTR hunting. We have our affordable car, I care not if the 'Supra' is GTR priced.

This thing doesn't look too bad, but it's not a supra and won't be. I like how they've thrown back to the JZA80 design though.

the front end looks so much like a Noble M600 it isn't funny.

So, the 86 is the reborn RWD celica from the 70s
The LFA is the reborn 2000GT

Keen to see what comes next. Notice Tada is quoted as "Supra successor" not "New Supra"...

I interpret that as the Supra being over. It will be a new model, new name. A successor

[FRSupra]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Let put it this way, the world that sees the Supra now doesn't fit the current Scion mission statement. Scion is about offering Toyota reliability to the younger market who are looking for affordability and customization. Which range from 16-25 old, stretching the average to include 30s now for the FR-S.

The FR-S sold in america wasn't exactly a downgrade over its original GT86 as its original intent was to be affordable, fun, and customizable. Not much needed to be done to allow the FRS to be sold as a Scion.

A MKV supra however needs to offer equal or greater performance than its previous model to be considered a successor, a while being competitive against its target market rivals. Meaning your looking at a Toyota sports car in the $50,000-$60,000+ range.

To allow the MKV supra be sold as a Scion, a few things would happen.
1. The Supra would be downgraded from its original concept to offer affordability to its main target audience.
2. Scion would have to alter its mission statement to include the Supra, which could be a step backwards for the future of Scion.

I could see any future Celica and the MR2 being sold as a Scion. But the Supra has to much heritage riding on it to be placed as a Scion Lineup.

Originally Posted by RyleyMA61

and yes, the supra "Celica XX" was based on the xA4x and the xA6x chassis... which the MA61 also shared with the MZ10 soarer.

the new 'supra' platform will definately be based off an existing platform - it makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised to see it based on a lexus platform, such as the IS or the new LF-LC concept.

So, the 86 is the reborn RWD celica from the 70s
The LFA is the reborn 2000GT

Could somebody please find Ja Rule, get ahold of the motha f^ucka so I can make sense of all this!

[Braces]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

Lol, I'm gonna be a realist here. Especially since there is some seriously deluded thinking on the part of a lot of people regarding wht the next Supra should be, and what it will be. I've said before that "if" the Supra is made, it won't be affordable for most people. I'm guessing $70k+ easy. It won't be competing with the Z, it will have the GT-R in it's sights. It will be made using tech from the LFA, perhaps even using a derivative engine based on the LFA in a front engine format. Expect an advanced paddle shift gearbox, possibly something along the lines of the IS-F.

I hope they do release it soon and I do hope they release it at about $70-$80k to make the car a little more accessible but not so much it becomes the next 370Z which I see everywhere. People forget that the Supra became a marquee car for Toyota...it's halo car if you will. They were pretty expensive back in the day...you could buy a Porsche 911 for about the same price back when they were new. Just because you can buy a 1995 MkIV TT with more than 100k miles on it for less than $30k doesn't mean the new one is gonna be anywhere near that price.

The LFA is old news, it was a neat exercise to prove Japan has what it takes to build a supercar, but it kinda fell flat on its face when compared to cars that were less expensive than it...and I don't see Toyota refreshing the LFA with a new version of it.

I'm not sure I agree that the GT-R is the target. That is a rather large step for Toyota to take. Toyota is in the business to make money. I don't see how you can go from the 25K car (twins) directly to a 100K car. It makes more financial sense to price a supra midway in the 50-60K arena. They will sell more Supras that way. Later ... they can come out with an "affordable" LFA to compete with the GT-R's, new NSX, etc.

[RyleyMA61]

the twins proved that toyota has the power to make a brilliant car. what is the critiscm of the 86? lack of power/grip

while you're right, it is a big step, but so was the 86.

with most of the world being wow'ed by the sucess of the 86/brz, toyota stating a "GTR killer" and priced accordingly, off the back of the brilliance of the twins, people might just buy it.

ie, the twins may have paved the way to make a GTR-hunting supra financially.

BTW I don't expect this KERS business on the 86/brz. probably a supra replacement mule

[Supermassive]

Originally Posted by Braces

I'm not sure I agree that the GT-R is the target. That is a rather large step for Toyota to take. Toyota is in the business to make money. I don't see how you can go from the 25K car (twins) directly to a 100K car. It makes more financial sense to price a supra midway in the 50-60K arena. They will sell more Supras that way. Later ... they can come out with an "affordable" LFA to compete with the GT-R's, new NSX, etc.

Toyota already has a performance car in the $50-$60k range:

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Supermassive

Toyota already has a performance car in the $50-$60k range:

Yes we already know that Toyota makes the IS-F. But marketing wise Lexus does not equal Toyota. I don't think many buyers cross shops between the two brands.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Braces

I'm not sure I agree that the GT-R is the target. That is a rather large step for Toyota to take. Toyota is in the business to make money. I don't see how you can go from the 25K car (twins) directly to a 100K car. It makes more financial sense to price a supra midway in the 50-60K arena. They will sell more Supras that way. Later ... they can come out with an "affordable" LFA to compete with the GT-R's, new NSX, etc.

+1, from what I been hearing a production Lexus LF-LC will complete with the new NSX.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by Ricepuddin

I'd put money (if i had any) on the next Supra being a Lexus

Most likely it will NOT be sold as a Lexus. A high Lexus official has already said the only two future Lexus coupe will be the LF-LC and LF-CC.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by RyleyMA61

Keen to see what comes next. Notice Tada is quoted as "Supra successor" not "New Supra"...

I interpret that as the Supra being over. It will be a new model, new name. A successor

I'm thinking it will be called "Supra" for two reasons.

1. When you think of Supra, you think of Toyota.
2. Toyota has secures trademark for Supra name.

On a different note, I'm hoping to see a Supra concept at the 2013 Tokyo Motor Show

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by cruzinbill

How would it be a downgrade badged as a Scion? Its still Toyota, thats like saying the FR-S is downgraded because its Scion. Ill take Scion any day of the week if its the same as its Japan Toyota counterpart, Pure price alone makes it worth it.

Have fun with that!! Pure pricing is a joke and if you think paying MSRP is the way to go, you're throwing away your money. I've bought all of my cars and motos at dealer cost or hundreds above so there shouldn't be any reason why a Scion consumer couldn't.


If the Supra was to be branded as a Scion, that would be a huge mistake for Toyota and the worse marketing announcement in automotive history.

Think about it, the next gen Supra will have to meet AND succeed the MKIV. Scion is on the lower tier of the Toyota family for affordability, entry level and lower quality. Just those 3 alone already disqualify it from being a Supra.

[cruzinbill]

Originally Posted by RRnold

Have fun with that!! Pure pricing is a joke and if you think paying MSRP is the way to go, you're throwing away your money. I've bought all of my cars and motos at dealer cost or hundreds above so there shouldn't be any reason why a Scion consumer couldn't.


If the Supra was to be branded as a Scion, that would be a huge mistake for Toyota and the worse marketing announcement in automotive history.

Think about it, the next gen Supra will have to meet AND succeed the MKIV. Scion is on the lower tier of the Toyota family for affordability, entry level and lower quality. Just those 3 alone already disqualify it from being a Scion.

pureprice is why i paid 26k for a fr-s and not 38k for a brz. 99% of people dont pay dealer cost. Also, you can call it lower tier or whatever you want. Its still the same car that is a toyota in the rest of the world.

I dont know why you find Scion badging inferior to Toyota when its litterally the same thing. I dont think 35-40k for supra badged as a scion is out of the question either.

[vh_supra26]

Originally Posted by zigzagz94

Yes and the MKI and the MKII were based off the Celica of the time. Toyota's really big on looking to their past for inspiration and direction right now. There is nothing preventing them from basing the MKV on the GT86 platform. I don't know why everyone hears Supra and assumes that it has to be a MKIV type vehicle which in many peoples opinion was an aberration and strayed far from the original direction of the Celica-Supra line of vehicles.

Despite the marketing hype about the FT-86 being a Hachiroku throwback, it's really a RWD Celica reboot and bringing out a higher performance more luxurious variant with slightly different body styling would totally be in-line with what Toyota has done historically with their sportscars.

Well Tada-san has said the Supra successor will be larger than the 86/FR-S. He also said he wants to shock the world with his new sports car and that it will have huge amount of power. However, this is Toyota after way and they are in the business to make money (no more crazy cars like the LFA ). To me the fastest and cheapest way of doing this is using an existing platform which already handles a good amount of power (GS/IS/RC) and updated/tune drive-train (turbo 2GR-FSE and or NA 2UR-GSE). But only time will tell what Toyota has in store for us.