**IMPORTANT** Sand in the engine block

[Grishbok]

i think after multiple forums reposting that, and more than 200 pages of responses, the general consensus was that it was a joke. but still, read through some of the comments, its hilarity.

[ScionRacer]

Its probably an isolated incident.After an engine is cast,it goes through a shaker that is supposed to breakdown the casting mold internally,then it goes through cleaning,machining and assembly.There is a possibility that the process was interrupted or incomplete,which could cause pieces of the mold to be left in the block.If this is the only case,then it will be impossible to pinpoint how it happened.

The amount of sand is probably very small,but depending where it became dislodged from,it could do extensive damage.

I had a 98 ranger that experienced a stuck thermostat,come to find out it was a piece of casting flak that broke free and got caught in between,that happened around 100k miles. At the time a my friends father worked on the mold line at the Ford Cleveland casting plant.When I asked him what happened,he explained the process and how something like that could happen.

[Sigma6]

Originally Posted by USMC FR-S

im in jacksonville, nc right now and there are currently 3 people having the same problem as me. Be on the lookout if you are noticing anything like this.

3 other people in Jacksonville or 3 other people across the country? How did you find out about these other people?

[wbradley]

If there was sand in the block it's probably in the coolant channels. The cylinder is milled after being cast AFAIK so nothing could be left after casting. I think this is a open deck block (or semi open).

Then there's sabotage, highly unlikely with a Japanese brand. That's more typical for GM.

Something doesn't sound quite right but then the dealer might still not be sure either. You might get a new engine and no doubt they will tear down the old one to determine the issue.

[Snoopyalien24]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

The oil filter might be something to be looked at, split open and analized for the presence of this mystery sand.

I think it was because of the way they were shipped over here. On cargo ships. Some came so dirty and full of sand/dirt/mud they you couldnt tell if it was an FRS or BRZ.

[JayNutter]

I used to work at a foundry that made car parts. Mainly Chrysler and GM, and some Toyota. Part of the final casting process is "cleaning" castings with steel shot. However there could be other scenarios for excessive sand as well.

Here is the quick and dirty of a foundry. There is quite a bit to it, but that isn't needed right now.

"Sand" is molded for the part.
Metal is poured into "sand" castings.
Once cool enough they move through shakers that remove most of the sand molding.
The castings are then "cleaned" with steel shot. (Basically it is a giant enclosed sand blaster that sprays little metal balls, the size of large grains of sand, at several directions at the casting. If a person was inside they would be stripped of their skin and down to the bone in several areas).
Then the parts are off for final grinding, polishing and inspection.

There are several scenarios in which a part may still contain a significant amount of sand. The most common would be that the machine did not have enough steel shot, the sprayers were malfunctioning, or the step was skipped.

The difference between a part that has been through the cleaning process and one that hasn't is night and day. Imagine your dirty wet foot at the beach compared to after you hose it down with water. If the part passes by any person it will be easily noticeable if there is a problem during the cleaning process. There would be little to no chance a part would get through with the cleaning step missed. Even if the steel shot was low or the sprayers were not working properly it would still likely remove the vast majority of the sand, however a chance exists of a small pocket of sand remaining in the part. Most parts are subjected to excessive cleaning beyond what is needed. This is done to cut down on the time needed for the final step, meaning less grinding. Not all parts are inspected, only a small number are.

Another scenario where excessive sand may be in the part is during the casting process. If the mold is defective part of the mold may break off and be embedded in the metal. If it is fully embedded it would be difficult to discover unless there is a failure somewhere or if a cavity is discovered. Of course if a cavity is discovered it may be filled with sand that is now in your engine or could just be an empty cavity that contained nothing (very common). The likelihood of cavities being formed depends on the size of the casting. The larger and thicker the casting the more likely for cavities.

fyi, I haven't worked in a foundry for years and certain manufacturers had much higher standards than others.

Edit: if there is a problem with sand from the parts is easily traceable and could know which parts were affected, when they were affected, and what cars they went into.

[FRiSson]

Originally Posted by cf6mech

The oil filter might be something to be looked at, split open and analized for the presence of this mystery sand.

Analization with sand is a common problem at beach resorts.

[Kilzod]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

Analization with sand is a common problem at beach resorts.

Sounds painful

Sucks for the OP, though, hope your problem gets solved to your satisfaction!

[USMC FR-S]

no I didn't port and polish anything lol, all the info I'm recieving is from the technicians at the dealership. I'm going to call them when I land and find out if they have anymore information about what's going on in there. either way I'm being compensated and they are going to fix the problem hopefully with a replacement motor.

[BRZnut]

Originally Posted by FRSowner

I think (and hope) this might be an isolated incident. Most of these cars are bought by enthusiasts and I would guess that several owners have had an oil analysis done on their engines by now, especially after the first or second oil change. If this was a common issue, I would also think the sand would show up in the oil analysis's and guys would be posting these results online.

I have yet to read one.

Am I really out in left field here?

Not so sure this is not the case...after I read this thread last night I took a look at the oil analysis posted here:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13286

They are all high in Silicon, which if you look at the Blackstone report mid way down on page one they state it comes from sealants and "sand casting". Most are in the 300+ range (well above normal)!!

Does anyone have a link to a first oil analysis from a non-BRZ-FRS? Wonder how it would compare.

[muffinman]

Interesting that ur saying that they found the sand when they pulled off the cylinder. If most or all of the sand was on top of the piston or around/behind the rings, sounds like it came in through the intake. I could easily seem scion blaming ur intake(and saying it clamps mustve been installed loosely, allowing junk in).

[FirestormFRS]

Having worked in a powertrain facility for a very long time, I highly doubt it's sand left from the casting process. There is just way too much machining coolant pushed through machined parts for this to be likely.

Good luck and god speed in Afghanistan young man.

[jflogerzi]

8500 Miles and not an issue. No CELs or other issues (Knocks on Wood) It looks like an isolated issue.

[Accurate Race Shop]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=620546
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

Here is an opened oil filter I asked if they noticed any sand particles in it.