Tiff Needell on Toyota GT86

[carbonBLUE]

Originally Posted by LIKEABOSS

I feel pretty good in both!

yeah the BOSS was well put together, i wish all the mustangs trims had it's suspension tuning :/

[Jesse]

all is good until OBD3. that will be the death of cars as we know

[rice_classic]

I just got back from the 25 Hours of Thunderhill and someone else there, as posted on another forum, says jokingly: There were 72 entries and 91 of them were Miatas.

It is also a common joke in racing (grassroots racing) that the answer to all things racing is: Miata.

Part of this is that Miatas are affordable when they're new and cheap when they're used. The S2000, unfortunately was neither.

There's a reason why more people are playing with Miatas on any given road racing weekend then any other car.

If the S2000 came it at $25-27k MSRP, even if that meant less power or slightly less awesome (but less theft prone) seats, it would have still been a fantastic car and I surmise it would have outsold the Miata. I mean... Imagine a car that is as light as the current model year Miata but costs the same, has 50 more HP, doesn't have a stupid smile on its face and isn't plagued by the (unfair) gay stereotype. It would have sold like crazy. Well, I feel the Scionbaru is that car.

Tiff hits the nail on the head and so does Clarkson. You don't need 300-600 Horsepower and flappy paddle gearboxes combined with big sticky tires to have fun. Fun is simple, affordable and can be had with low grip at slower speeds... Something most manufacturers and unfortunately, most consumers have forgotten. And I think this is because both are too caught up in measuring "size" instead of measuring "fun".

[nashsnazzy]

I could never get over the grin my miata had so away it went and here I am. I wasn't nuts about the suspension tuning on it either. The twins feel more stable and have laser like steering. Now I do miss my 99 miata. Maybe I'll get one of those for top down motoring.

[SmartedPanda]

Originally Posted by Texas FR-S

Great read, thank you for sharing, OP.

I'm on Tiff's side...

Come on all manufacturers! We need you guys to be inspired by this car and its simplicity / beauty / affordabilty, which there is still a demand for... I feel.

They need to add AVAILABILTY!

[brian_c_m]

Not sure if any of you heard, but a short while ago Caterham and Renault announced that they would be pulling a Toyota/Subaru stunt and collaborating on a car together.

I'm not a Renault fan but this effort could possibly churn out a fantastic car. And when cars are created as a shared effort, it usually means development costs are shared and the final product being cheaper than if it were developed solely by 1 manufacturer...

Fingers crossed they don't cock it up

[no_name]

Well at this point we can guarantee that there's a new Miata coming and probably an RX-Something once Mazda can make rotaries perform to modern fuel economy expectations, Tada-san said he wants 2 more sports cars in the Toyota lineup, and I bet Nissan would love a piece of the action as well. I also wouldn't completely discount the American companies, everyone is watching how well the 86 is selling.

[Texas BRZ]

Originally Posted by SmartedPanda

They need to add AVAILABILTY!

True... But my tummy is satisfied, as you can see... And I can't feel the pain... (I'm bragging, sorry!)

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Hey, btw, you guys talking about the smile on my last car?

[Frost]

Originally Posted by LIKEABOSS

If you really want to thank someone thank Ford and the Mustang. It has been the affordable RWD sports car since the 60's.

Wrong demographic. Come on now, don't be trolling

You know I meant small RWD roadsters. The Mustang is not that even though technically, it's not that far off. We're not talking about a Cutlass sized RWD car but buyers simply don't equate the Mustang with a 'small' coupe.

[LIKEABOSS]

Originally Posted by Frost

Wrong demographic. Come on now, don't be trolling

You know I meant small RWD roadsters. The Mustang is not that even though technically, it's not that far off. We're not talking about a Cutlass sized RWD car but buyers simply don't equate the Mustang with a 'small' coupe.

I understand but the Fox Body Mustangs were pretty small. My Boss does feel big after driving my FR-S. Oh and I'd only be trolling if I didn't own a FR-S.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE

yeah but its the passion that's missing, the mustang looks like a mustang, but it always feels like it's missing something... maybe its too big of a car for me... i dunno, maybe im sitting too high up.. i dunno something doesnt seem "just right" like the twins make you feel

Nonsense, the Mustang has plenty of passion. Just different taste is all.

Originally Posted by Frost

Wrong demographic. Come on now, don't be trolling

You know I meant small RWD roadsters. The Mustang is not that even though technically, it's not that far off. We're not talking about a Cutlass sized RWD car but buyers simply don't equate the Mustang with a 'small' coupe.

Roadsters? Don't you mean sports cars? Because that's exactly what we're talking about. And the Mustang is a compact car, granted the current one is the biggest and heaviest ever...but still compact.

Anyway back ontopic...drat. Forgot what I was gonna say.

[Ingen]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

But never the less, I still think manufacturers are better off making affordable RWD or AWD sport coupes vs. more stupid hot hatches and grocery getters.

Why can't we have both?

Come with me on a thought journey. The WRX and STI are available as sedans and hatch backs, but the rally team uses the hatch b/c it rotates better and only weighs 1 lb more.

There are already myriad vehicles out there that look the part - VW GTI, Hyundai Veloster, Focus ST, etc etc. Plenty of FWD, practical (ish) vehicles.

Why can't they be RWD? I mean, if the Veloster had a slightly firmer suspension, a transmission pointed backwards and a limited slip, it would be a great deal more fun wouldn't it? As would the others, though I have heard to focus ST is so ridiculous that it can stay a hot hatch .

But seriously, why can't they make fun, RWD cars that happen to also be short lift-backs? Why is that so damned hard? They could get the sales volume based on the practicality of the vehicle, and without much effort make a performance version with a stick for those of us who want such a thing.

I just do not see where the challenge is with this formula. The trick, I think, is to make it not look like a lift-back coupe - the BMW M Coupes have shown that this is not desirable. While some of us love them, and they're dynamically very capable, it doesn't matter much if they never sell any.

Make a mass-appeal looking car that happens to have a bit of performance DNA and they'll sell the hell out of it.

On that note... where's the RWD V6 stick shift accord coupe? Sigh.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Ingen

Why can't we have both?

Come with me on a thought journey. The WRX and STI are available as sedans and hatch backs, but the rally team uses the hatch b/c it rotates better and only weighs 1 lb more.

There are already myriad vehicles out there that look the part - VW GTI, Hyundai Veloster, Focus ST, etc etc. Plenty of FWD, practical (ish) vehicles.

Why can't they be RWD? I mean, if the Veloster had a slightly firmer suspension, a transmission pointed backwards and a limited slip, it would be a great deal more fun wouldn't it? As would the others, though I have heard to focus ST is so ridiculous that it can stay a hot hatch .

But seriously, why can't they make fun, RWD cars that happen to also be short lift-backs? Why is that so damned hard? They could get the sales volume based on the practicality of the vehicle, and without much effort make a performance version with a stick for those of us who want such a thing.

I just do not see where the challenge is with this formula. The trick, I think, is to make it not look like a lift-back coupe - the BMW M Coupes have shown that this is not desirable. While some of us love them, and they're dynamically very capable, it doesn't matter much if they never sell any.

Make a mass-appeal looking car that happens to have a bit of performance DNA and they'll sell the hell out of it.

On that note... where's the RWD V6 stick shift accord coupe? Sigh.

Maybe the extra girth is unnecessary and having a tall back hatch may make it harder to control the oversteer with RWD. But yeah, it's definitely possible. I'm all for different designs. I just think there are too many hot hatches out there lately. My favorite formula is compact/sleek coupes/hatchbacks like the 86/BRZ is so I'd obviously like to see more like that.