My AP Exhaust Problems!

[White64Goat]

My exhaust is very similar in design (SRT Swift Racing Technologies) and mine is completely welded from the 2 bolt axle-back flange all the way to the tips. That's just not a great design and maybe they did it that way to be sure you could get both exhaust tips centered in the diffuser opening, but mine fits just fine, so I'd be looking for replacement (and then get that bitch welded) or a refund. I'd also check the fine print to see if anywhere on their website it has anything about items not being warrantied if used for racing. If not, then I'd say it's on them to fix/replace/refund. Just my .02

[vividracing]

Hello FT86 friends and fans. There is so much I could explain and so I could discuss with this situation and my emails and fun phone conversations with the OP.

I could back up how warranties work with any product on the planet when misused, abused, dropped, drug, over-tightened, under-tightened, etc.

I could use this fancy hyperlink feature to post threads of the OP happy with the system, happy with how this system held up after FALLING OFF THE CAR due.

I can make sly comments, preach to the choir, make a whole bunch of enraged friends by explaining NASIOC or IWSTI issues from a decade ago.

I could offer yet another blow-out deal on the product to another forum member to show how to install it, how to tighten it, how to align tips, etc.

I'm not going to do these things, I'm not going to add anymore to this to be "quoted" a thousand times to hear a hundred different reasons on why the customer is always right and the OP should get a free item no matter what it has been through. I am not going to confirm that these parts cannot be used on the track or enter into an engineering debate on what clamp is the best to use for this system.

The fact is the system was mis-installed, admittedly by the OP months ago, at that time the system as warranty-able was questionable. The clamp that has ripped off is nothing short of amazing, looking at a new system there is an 1/8" slot giving 1/8" of tightening capabilities. Tightening the clamp to and beyond the point of shearing raised a lot more concern.

The OP needed a solution in 2 days, this is something we could not cater to without inspection and confirmation with Agency Power, this would be the first step in any warranty process as well.

That's all I have to say about that.

-Sean

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by epson1

You sound like a big whiny baby. Buy a new muffer clamp to replace the leaker. And replace your canister flange with another clamp. Cost maybe 30$

Originally Posted by epson1

We all know their customer service sucks. I'm sorry you're diffuser is "ruined". Exhaust clamps like that suck. End of story. I'm on my phone so I'm not going to type a long, properly formatted paragraph to call you an idiot. It's no ones fault that poorly designed clamps "held you back" at the track.

Long story short, the clamps suck. Also you suck. Go write an angry letter to your state government about how upset you are that your 500$ exhaust burned a piece of textured plastic on your 20,000$ car.

Also it really would cost 40$ max and maybe 15 minutes at Jegs to fix that exhaust.

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer

I still can't believe that other guy bought this one instead of something else with this thread going on. Not sure why Epson is so hostile either?

For real! Why bash the consumer? The quality obviously sucks and to pay that amount for an exhaust to fail like that is uncall for. He shouldn't have to go to Jegs to fix it if it wasn't such crap. Personally, I wouldn't even give any exhaust system that uses clamps a thought.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by vividracing

The OP needed a solution in 2 days, this is something we could not cater to without inspection and confirmation with Agency Power, this would be the first step in any warranty process as well.

If only you guys had some way to easily get in touch with Agency Power. Let's check their domain registration whois record to see if we can find a contact over there for you:

[JoeBoxer]

The fact is you can get an get a quality exhaust for the same price or less, i don't know how it even possible to mis-install an exhaust, i'm not even mechanically inclined and had mine on in 20 minutes. Sorry to all the guys that pre-ordered on faulty dyno numbers, you guys are the true victims here.

[Zadkiel]

Originally Posted by pcasso87

Some people man, you would think they would be grateful for the advice and instead he calls me a whining baby. I didnt call him an idiot i said he could either be an idiot or conformist he chose the former when he said i called him an idiot. Nothing wrong with being a conformist, but those people should just keep their opinions to their selves.

It's because everyone made fun of his aluminum exhaust and he's a little crybaby.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

If only you guys had some way to easily get in touch with Agency Power. Let's check their domain registration whois record to see if we can find a contact over there for you:

Let me make this more plain, the OP wanted a new system sent to him, and he wanted this to him in 2 days. Without overnight shipping the system here, inspecting, warrantying, or repairing the system in between the 1030am drop off and 330pm shipping cutoff, then overnight shipping the system back to them, it would not be possible.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer

The fact is you can get an get a quality exhaust for the same price or less, i don't know how it even possible to mis-install an exhaust, i'm not even mechanically inclined and had mine on in 20 minutes.

I completely agree

[ChaChas345]

Originally Posted by pcasso87

I always heard the subaru stories and being a long time customer of them i foolishly ignored them. I hope people learn from others mistakes....... Now lets wait for vivid & ap to blame me on hitting something, or bad install, or that it got caught with something.

Other vendors have a great example here of how not to treat your loyal customers, let this be a lesson to us all.

Thast why I always try to support good companies like Perrin and Nameless. They are very transparent and keep their customers informed the whole way. Also have great customer service. They are how every company should act and hold them selves.

I am not surprised that they treated you this way and dont understand how they have been in business for so long with this type of service. Its happened for a very long time. Their owner Dan was copying parts in the 90s when the B series motors were the thing back then. He did it with great success but once newer motors like the K series and other engines came out he tried to do the same thing and didnt do so well and had similar performance to other knock off brands like Megan. I have no problem with brands that provide parts for a cheaper price but when they charge what other big name companies like Perrin and HKS do you should expect nothing less of excellent.

Originally Posted by Hanakuso

Just looking at the warranty description baffles me on there website,



I hope they can come in here and fill us in but this is what i'm getting. All AP products are intended for race use only but won't cover on track use?

With all the negativity from people on these forums towards them I still dont understand why people still decide to go with them. Their exhausts are the worse performing ones in the magazine dyno's and if you look at customer dynos they all have been horrible versus their dynos.

Their dynos show gains across the whole power band yet customers dynos show like 5-6 whp at its peak and no gains anywhere else. Thats less then half of what they claimed. Seeing that their pulley gained like 10-15 WHP should of been a red flag already when vendors like Perrin even say you wont see gains on a dyno. I am not 100% sure if that is correct but still you can see why they give those crap dynos for sales. They even claim that it does them no good if they show fake dynos but that is obviously bullshit.

Originally Posted by vividracing

I completely agree

You guys as a company have not changed your ways. Saying you guys are under new ownership which I call bullshit. How many times have you guys lied to people on forums? Tell me how many forums have you guys been banned as a vendor? Its no surprise you guys are hated in the Subaru scene with tons of people who dont like you guys as a company. You guys have never changed no matter what you say.

Everytime you guys get called out the person who was posting on the vendor account mysteriously disappear. Showing us fake dynos to hit that 200 whp mark because thats what everyone wanted to see then saying you guys were wrong after tons of people called you guys out.

I saw this thread in one of the Vivid Racing/AP posts and it shows you how many bad problems and experiences people have received from them in the past. Tons of stories like where customers would get their parts stolen from their cars when brought in to get it modded. Or they would sell parts that they dont have and charge peoples credit cards making them get their product months later. Other companie DONT do this without letting the consumer know and charge them AFTER they have sent it out them selves. The posts date till 2006 I believe but like I said in another post if you search on google you will see tons of other forums with horrible experiences with the same thing still happening after that thread was closed/done. Lots of forums such as Porches, BMW's, Subaru and many other forums with their members posting the SAME things happening in that thread on NASIOC. Not a coincidence that they havent changed one bit. Just look at how they treat people on these forums. You dotn see any vendor on here arguing and talking shit to potential customers.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...racing&page=45

Its an old thread but if you do a google search on Vivid/AP and you will see that it still happens all the time in the past couple years. Their vendor is such a liar. Claiming they make their products in the USA yet on the AP site it says they have them mass produced in China. I heard a moderator on the Vivid Racing forums basically spilled the beans on their whole operation posting shipping and receiving invoices from Taiwan. Also stating that they are liars and tons of other damaging information. Then you have the owner Dan trying to put a bounty on that moderator saying he will pay money to get his contact information. I believe that moderator also started a Vivid Racing Sucks . com site. But it was taken down because Dan tried to legally threaten him. I also remember reading a post from someone saying that they were selling a product from Greddy and then they liked it so much they had it sent to Taiwan or China to make a knock off of it to sell them selves. They ended up removing the Greddy product from their site and sell their own now. I have never seen them ever bring something new to this scene. Everything they make is basically copied off of another companies hard work. Charging what other well known companies for an inferior product that should be priced at what other knock off companies sell their products for.

Just goes to show you what shitty company they are. And to the people who dont like this post you dont need to read if you dont want to but they are a prime example of how a company should not be operating. They are the lowest of the low and have no respect for this scene we all enjoy. I am surprised they still havent been banned yet from these forums because they have done the same practices on every other forum and been banned after they shitted on everyone.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by ChaChas345

Thast why I always try to support good companies like Perrin and Nameless. They are very transparent and keep their customers informed the whole way. Also have great customer service. They are how every company should act and hold them selves.

Agreed.

I thought all this would of been pretty easy to see when Perrin, Nameless, SRT etc all had development threads and answered questions posted. We got to see redeigns as well as ask why things were done this way and that way.

Where I believe the AP exhaust thread was a picture of a dyno claiming almost 200WHP from "just exhaust" as well as AP saying that they had a couple redesigns after doing R&D yet they didn't post anything up ever about any of it.

Vivid Racing, I have no issues with you guys as I am not going to be sending any money your way but I have lots of issues with how you guys ad your stuff. I mean hell even your AP headers (which look like chop and cut WRX POS) are claimed to be bolt on power according to your website (tho it all looks copy and pasted from every other item on the website) when multiple dynos have shown it makes nothing. I beloieve your own dyno showed it made nothing (which you guys claim to be due to a restrictive overpipe funny cause a pully made huge power haha)

I brought this up before and was shunned by the AP supporters but in the end the product will speak for itself.

[vividracing]

Originally Posted by ChaChas345

Thast why I always try to support good companies like Perrin and Nameless. They are very transparent and keep their customers informed the whole way. Also have great customer service. They are how every company should act and hold them selves.

I am not surprised that they treated you this way and dont understand how they have been in business for so long with this type of service. Its happened for a very long time. Their owner Dan was copying parts in the 90s when the B series motors were the thing back then. He did it with great success but once newer motors like the K series and other engines came out he tried to do the same thing and didnt do so well and had similar performance to other knock off brands like Megan. I have no problem with brands that provide parts for a cheaper price but when they charge what other big name companies like Perrin and HKS do you should expect nothing less of excellent.



With all the negativity from people on these forums towards them I still dont understand why people still decide to go with them. Their exhausts are the worse performing ones in the magazine dyno's and if you look at customer dynos they all have been horrible versus their dynos.

Their dynos show gains across the whole power band yet customers dynos show like 5-6 whp at its peak and no gains anywhere else. Thats less then half of what they claimed. Seeing that their pulley gained like 10-15 WHP should of been a red flag already when vendors like Perrin even say you wont see gains on a dyno. I am not 100% sure if that is correct but still you can see why they give those crap dynos for sales. They even claim that it does them no good if they show fake dynos but that is obviously bullshit.



You guys as a company have not changed your ways. Saying you guys are under new ownership which I call bullshit. How many times have you guys lied to people on forums? Tell me how many forums have you guys been banned as a vendor? Its no surprise you guys are hated in the Subaru scene with tons of people who dont like you guys as a company. You guys have never changed no matter what you say.

Everytime you guys get called out the person who was posting on the vendor account mysteriously disappear. Showing us fake dynos to hit that 200 whp mark because thats what everyone wanted to see then saying you guys were wrong after tons of people called you guys out.

I saw this thread in one of the Vivid Racing/AP posts and it shows you how many bad problems and experiences people have received from them in the past. Tons of stories like where customers would get their parts stolen from their cars when brought in to get it modded. Or they would sell parts that they dont have and charge peoples credit cards making them get their product months later. Other companie DONT do this without letting the consumer know and charge them AFTER they have sent it out them selves. The posts date till 2006 I believe but like I said in another post if you search on google you will see tons of other forums with horrible experiences with the same thing still happening after that thread was closed/done. Lots of forums such as Porches, BMW's, Subaru and many other forums with their members posting the SAME things happening in that thread on NASIOC. Not a coincidence that they havent changed one bit. Just look at how they treat people on these forums. You dotn see any vendor on here arguing and talking shit to potential customers.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...racing&page=45

Its an old thread but if you do a google search on Vivid/AP and you will see that it still happens all the time in the past couple years. Their vendor is such a liar. Claiming they make their products in the USA yet on the AP site it says they have them mass produced in China. I heard a moderator on the Vivid Racing forums basically spilled the beans on their whole operation posting shipping and receiving invoices from Taiwan. Also stating that they are liars and tons of other damaging information. Then you have the owner Dan trying to put a bounty on that moderator saying he will pay money to get his contact information. I believe that moderator also started a Vivid Racing Sucks . com site. But it was taken down because Dan tried to legally threaten him. I also remember reading a post from someone saying that they were selling a product from Greddy and then they liked it so much they had it sent to Taiwan or China to make a knock off of it to sell them selves. They ended up removing the Greddy product from their site and sell their own now. I have never seen them ever bring something new to this scene. Everything they make is basically copied off of another companies hard work. Charging what other well known companies for an inferior product that should be priced at what other knock off companies sell their products for.

Just goes to show you what shitty company they are. And to the people who dont like this post you dont need to read if you dont want to but they are a prime example of how a company should not be operating. They are the lowest of the low and have no respect for this scene we all enjoy. I am surprised they still havent been banned yet from these forums because they have done the same practices on every other forum and been banned after they shitted on everyone.

Well this is going to get awesome in a hurry.

"I am not surprised that they treated you this way and dont understand how they have been in business for so long with this type of service. Its happened for a very long time. Their owner Dan was copying parts in the 90s when the B series motors were the thing back then. He did it with great success but once newer motors like the K series and other engines came out he tried to do the same thing and didnt do so well and had similar performance to other knock off brands like Megan. I have no problem with brands that provide parts for a cheaper price but when they charge what other big name companies like Perrin and HKS do you should expect nothing less of excellent."

Dan graduated high school in 1997, Vivid Racing started as a business in 2001.

[clayrush]

LOL
how many pages of do think we will have of back and forth this time.

[WithNolock]

I’d like to add a little balance to the conversation if I may. I have owned the AP exhaust for some time now and I’m quite happy with it. It’s a great looking exhaust, has a good sound, is quite light and provides a hp bump comparable to the other exhausts out there. The fit and finish is perfect and I’ve had no problems to date. As for the longevity of the exhaust, only time will tell.

As for Vivid as a company, I have had no problems with them either. I’m local so I have actually met Dan and their sales manager Sean so it’s a little bit difficult for me to stand by and watch people throw out these very personal attacks. Are they out to make money? Of course they are! No one in their right mind would start a business without having profit as one of their goals. Where you get into trouble is when you put profit in front of customer service. Believe me, I have seen the complaints against Vivid Racing and many have solid reasons why they feel wronged. I just want people on the forum to know that they do have customers that are happy with their products and service.

Was I happy with the debacle that was the original dyno thread? No.
Do I think Vivid/AP is a perfect company? Of course not!
But I did want share my experiences so everyone out there has all the positive and negative information to make their own decisions.

[Hawaiian]

In before the flamewar, post deletions, and thread lock!