Ground Control CamberPlates and Stress Bar

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by gmookher

Curious, what you ended up with for spring rates, settings etc? how much drop? how many clicks?
what did you do in the rear end- lca or bushings?

sounds like there arent alotta guys going this route, but those who do, are indeed serious about tarmac performance. any opinions you can share before and after strutbar? I would like to end up around -2.5 camber up front for faster tracks, and some autox.
thanks
gem

GC/Koni is one of my top choices for the low 2k price range

[AX FRS]

Originally Posted by gmookher

Curious, what you ended up with for spring rates, settings etc? how much drop? how many clicks?
what did you do in the rear end- lca or bushings?

sounds like there arent alotta guys going this route, but those who do, are indeed serious about tarmac performance. any opinions you can share before and after strutbar? I would like to end up around -2.5 camber up front for faster tracks, and some autox.
thanks
gem

I think the spring rates Adam sent were about 470 front and 430 rear. He also sent another set that were in the 500 range. Car is a daily driver and weekend AX weapon so I stuck with the softer 400 range springs which worked very well.
Car was lowered 1 inch.
Rear revalved Koni's were set at half way between soft and stiff (have to take them off to change settings) and I set the fronts at full stiff for some sites and 1 to 2 clicks from stiff for other sites depending on the surface.
In the rear after the car was lowered I was able to get 2.5 negative which is what I wanted. Nothing else has been done in the rear.

Before and after the strut bar? Huge difference in turn in, the car really goes where you point it. I hit a few slalom cones at first because I wasn't used to the really good turn in. Also I'll be ordering Sam Strano's front sway bar next week to replace the stock front bar and will be running no rear bar.

The only problem I've had is the car draws a crowd when I open the hood. It's just too pretty with the GC stuff <grin>

Jim H.
DFW Texas

[chutrain]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

GC/Koni is one of my top choices for the low 2k price range

Definitely. Better than your "budget" coilovers. GC engineers their stuff correctly.

[GC_Adam]

Originally Posted by AX FRS

I sent a bunch of pictures to Adam that were taken by a friend with a really good camera.

Adam can you post them?

I'm just a driver and not very good with this PC stuff.

Jim H.
DFW Texas

Here are some pics of AX FRS's (Jim) car with the GC complete system on it. Jim

[jdzumwalt]

I was on your web site am I understanding correctly that the tops are compatible with KW v3 ?

[chutrain]

Originally Posted by jdzumwalt

I was on your web site am I understanding correctly that the tops are compatible with KW v3 ?

If that is true, then there goes more of my money. I like how everything is integrated, and one of the beefiest looking strut bar setups on the market.

[Orthow]

Originally Posted by chutrain

If that is true, then there goes more of my money. I like how everything is integrated, and one of the beefiest looking strut bar setups on the market.

Take 2 seconds and look at how this "beefy" strut bar is actually attached to the camberplates. I've had a dozen different types of strut bars in my cars over the years but never a setup that used such small hardware to hold it all together. Also the elongated holes to help with installation is great for a mass produced item but offers less strength to the overall design which is kinda key when dealing with a strut bar. But HEY it looks cool right lol I've noticed alot of the modding on this forum goes by way of the "looks cool factor" vs "actually functions factor". This ideology will mature eventually when more actual enthusiasts purchase the car versus all the first time buyers and early adopters that are present right now.

Regarding the strutbar I would like to see the setup redone with larger hardware or even better if the entire setup could be one piece as that would be the overall strongest version. Who cares if installation is a tad bit harder it's what enthusiasts have come to expect.

But I will give respect to GC/Koni as I've run this setup on previous cars and for the money it's hard to beat. I eventually started upping my budget and taking racing a little more serious so I opted for one piece true coilovers but for the budget orientated, as stated, the GC/Koni combo can not be beat.

Give it 6 months and I guarantee you will see a similar setup to the one listed in this thread, made by another manufacturer and will emcompass everything I have mentioned. It's only a matter of time.

[GC_Adam]

Originally Posted by jdzumwalt

I was on your web site am I understanding correctly that the tops are compatible with KW v3 ?

Yes, you are correct our camberplates do work with the KW V3. In fact we sent some out yesterday.

Originally Posted by chutrain

If that is true, then there goes more of my money. I like how everything is integrated, and one of the beefiest looking strut bar setups on the market.

Call me

[GC86]

Originally Posted by Orthow

Take 2 seconds and look at how this "beefy" strut bar is actually attached to the camberplates.

It is hard to see, they are 3/8 inch grade 8 fasteners. The yield strength is well over 10,000 pounds each. This means that ONE of those bolts can pick up one Subaru BRZ...... PLUS a Scion FR-S, a Honda SI-R and a Troll, all with JUST ONE of the bolts.

Source:
http://www.smithfast.com/shcsmech.html

Originally Posted by Orthow

I've had a dozen different types of strut bars in my cars over the years but never a setup that used such small hardware to hold it all together.

The fasteners are superior in size and strength to the tower bolts on a Honda or Acura, and are more than strong enough. If this was an airplane or aerospace application, the fasteners would be specified even smaller, they are actually overkill.

Originally Posted by Orthow

Also the elongated holes to help with installation is great for a mass produced item but offers less strength to the overall design which is kinda key when dealing with a strut bar.

Mass produced item for a mass-produced car. The unibody varies in width on these cars. The slot is a perfectly appropriate design solution, just like the oversize holes that are already designed into the sheetmetal for the same reason.

Originally Posted by Orthow

But HEY it looks cool right lol

Yes it does, thank you. We spent quite a bit of time removing weight from the prototype designs.

Originally Posted by Orthow

I've noticed alot of the modding on this forum goes by way of the "looks cool factor" vs "actually functions factor". This ideology will mature eventually when more actual enthusiasts purchase the car versus all the first time buyers and early adopters that are present right now.

I have not noticed that. Of course we are actually designing and testing the parts, rather than speculating and guessing, so our company may not see the "cool factor" point of view.

Originally Posted by Orthow

Regarding the strutbar I would like to see the setup redone with larger hardware or even better if the entire setup could be one piece as that would be the overall strongest version.

Does not need larger hardware, as stated above with chart.

Originally Posted by Orthow

But I will give respect to GC/Koni as I've run this setup on previous cars and for the money it's hard to beat. I eventually started upping my budget and taking racing a little more serious so I opted for one piece true coilovers but for the budget orientated, as stated, the GC/Koni combo can not be beat.

Thank you for this comment. As you mention, price and value do come into consideration when designing a product. This is why the stress bar and camber/caster plate are 3 pieces.

The Ground Control struts and shocks, however, are separate pieces for strength, not money saving. A strut tube with threads cut INTO it, is not as strong as a strut tube with threads OVER it.

Originally Posted by Orthow

Give it 6 months and I guarantee you will see a similar setup to the one listed in this thread, made by another manufacturer and will emcompass everything I have mentioned. It's only a matter of time.

Quoted for May 30, 2013.

Thank you for your input. It is always nice to have the opportunity to educate people about the design process of performance car parts.

None of the dimensions or hardware choices are ever taken for granted. Every single aspect of the design is revisited and retested, but fresh ideas are always fresh ideas and we appreciate the chance to tell you about the products.

[jdzumwalt]

Originally Posted by Orthow

Take 2 seconds and look at how this "beefy" strut bar is actually attached to the camberplates. I've had a dozen different types of strut bars in my cars over the years but never a setup that used such small hardware to hold it all together. Also the elongated holes to help with installation is great for a mass produced item but offers less strength to the overall design which is kinda key when dealing with a strut bar.

.

I see no problem with the hardware. With both pieces machined the way they are should be good. Although if we start to see bent bolts could be a problem. But with machined parts the lip should be taking the load hard to tell from the photo.

Gregg

[GC86]

Originally Posted by jdzumwalt

I see no problem with the hardware. With both pieces machined the way they are should be good. Although if we start to see bent bolts could be a problem. But with machined parts the lip should be taking the load hard to tell from the photo.

Gregg

I agree. Single shear load rating is almost 12,000 pounds per fastener, and there are 4 fasteners.

http://www.smithfast.com/shcsmech.html

[SubieNate]

The only thing I'd like to see on the strut bar would be a way to add a teensy bit of preload to the bar just to give it a bit of extra stiffness. The fastener size is a nonissue. Most standard tubular strut bars are mounted to the strut tops with extremely thin metal plates and have bends in the bar itself to allow them to easily clear motor components. All of that adds flex. The GC unit here has none of that. It looks well designed to me.

Nathan

[GC86]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

The only thing I'd like to see on the strut bar would be a way to add a teensy bit of preload to the bar just to give it a bit of extra stiffness. The fastener size is a nonissue. Most standard tubular strut bars are mounted to the strut tops with extremely thin metal plates and have bends in the bar itself to allow them to easily clear motor components. All of that adds flex. The GC unit here has none of that. It looks well designed to me.

Nathan

Hey Nathan, this is a piece of cake.

Jack the car up on one side (does not matter which), loosen then retighten all of the fasteners and....Voila! Preloaded truss bar!

Here is a video of how much a Porsche 951 flexes, before bolting down the GC stress bar:

FT86 is similar, but I don't have a video.

[SubieNate]

Good call.