Official Formula 1 thread

[rice_classic]

I'm more excited to watch the Continental Tire and Pirelli World Challenge than I am to watch an F1 race.

I can relate to the cars and hell, if I made another $50k/year I would drive one of those cars (arrive and drive in ST is in the neighborhood of $11k/weekend). But F1 is supposed to be a spectacle of epicness but we no longer get that. What we get instead is:
- team orders: So even if you're a fan of a certain driver who isn't a team's #1, there's very little chance they will win a race, even a race they are leading. *cough webber cough*.
- tires that don't last: They are no longer racing to win, they are racing to manager tires. The entire event is just a game of tire management. That is not racing.
- gimmicks like KERS and DRS: KERS did not improve the racing for the fans. DRS did though. But DRS isn't the answer, it only brings to light what the problem is... Aero. The cars cannot run close to each other because of aero and they get almost no benefit in the draft because of diffusers (aero) which reduce or eliminate any benefit to the trailing car. Ditch the gimmicks and address the underlying problem.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

- tires that don't last: They are no longer racing to win, they are racing to manager tires. The entire event is just a game of tire management. That is not racing.

I disagree, equipment management IS racing. The Bridgestone years were boring as fuck and it all came down to fuel load calculations, not any different than tire management is now: do we load up with fuel/run long on tires and be slow but stop less or the opposite?

I think first half of '12 was the best F1 racing I've ever seen, I like it when the teams get a curveball to work around. You say it used to be a spectacle, what season was your favorite? (Please don't say 07/08, that was rubbish watching Mclaren/Ferrari podiums all year)

Rest of your post is spot on though. IMO keep the tires, change them up every once in awhile, toss out the gimmicks, simplify/reduce the aero.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I disagree, equipment management IS racing. The Bridgestone years were boring as fuck and it all came down to fuel load calculations, not any different than tire management is now: do we load up with fuel/run long on tires and be slow but stop less or the opposite?

The Bridgestone years sucked for different reasons.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I think first half of '12 was the best F1 racing I've ever seen, I like it when the teams get a curveball to work around.

Rest of your post is spot on though. IMO keep the tires, change them up every once in awhile, toss out the gimmicks, simplify/reduce the aero.

Yes, but it's unsustainable to constantly be throwing curveballs at them and it unnecessary anyway. The tires have to change. They need to be tougher because right now they greatly favor those who can figure them out and penalize those who can't. This is something I have a problem with because the teams don't develop their own tires. Since the tires are provided I don't like it when they benefit one team greatly or handicaps another team greatly. It's stupid. I want to see race car drivers driving the car as fast as they can. If I didn't I'd be watching the WEC.

Tire management will always be part of the equation, heck it is even for me at my level of racing. In Korea Alonso was saying that when driven flat out the Pirelli was only good for 5 or 6 corners, that it wasn't even capable of sustaining a full lap when driven flat out. How is that racing? I want to see how fast a driver can drive the car but now it's drivers who are managing their tires to a per-determinate wear formula and maintaining a pace to some calculation that is several seconds slower than the car is capable of.

Driver radio: "Ok, can I race him now? I think I'm faster and I want to pass him."
Team radio: "Do not pass, retain pace, manage tires."

We literally have team leaders telling their drivers during the race not to drive faster, not to "race" because it could harm the tire strategy. At that moment I have to ask myself... "WTF am I watching this for?"

I think the two tire compounds brought to the track need to last for at least 20 laps of qualifying pace and have a least a 1-2 second delta in lap time. I wish Pirelli would just grow a set of testicles and develop a tire that's right for the sport as opposed to what they've been asked to develop. If this means that Vettel is going to win the race and lap half the field.. so be it, at least we will get to see what he's capable if allowed to drive flat out every stint. I'd like to see it.

As for my favorite era?... I started watching in 1984 so I'd say 1984 to about 2002. However I did not hate it when Schumi won all the time because I liked Schumi as a racer. I think the best racer and team should win, even if they're dominant (like RBR). But what makes the Schumi-Ferrari-Era better than the Vettel-RBR era is that at least back then they were racing flat out. (And Schumacher wasn't a bratty little shit like Vettel).

[cfusionpm]

Anyone playing the new F1 2013 game? I played the hell out of 2012 and am downloading 2013 right now. I guess there was some logistics mess-up for the US/CA release of the game, but it's available now on digital download for 360 and PS3. Better than waiting till end of October (or end of November, depending on who you ask).

[Calais]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

Anyone playing the new F1 2013 game? I played the hell out of 2012 and am downloading 2013 right now. I guess there was some logistics mess-up for the US/CA release of the game, but it's available now on digital download for 360 and PS3. Better than waiting till end of October (or end of November, depending on who you ask).

yea im playing its good nothing like a good racing game to make you rage when you stuff up, the classic cars are so much fun i am currently going through each circuit with every car in chronological order from the 80's to 90's and then getting a random current car, all the while trying like hell to break my previous lap record. this feature in itself is worth the price of the game for me

[cfusionpm]

Newey and Horner's wonderboy wins another title while Mark's car breaks again. Good luck next year Daniel!

[cfusionpm]

By the way, for some fun numbers for Vettel fans:

Adrian Newey has designed winning cars for 10 World Constructors Championships and 9 World Driver's Championship.

His 19 world titles have been won by 3 different teams and 6 different drivers.

In that same time, his cars have taken 121 of 171 pole positions (or about 71% of all races those years).

Those 121 poles are with 11 different drivers.

So.... yeah. Vettel is just the hamster in a rocket-ship cage. An above-average driver who has a deviously-brilliant, rule-bending genius car designer make a car 2 seconds a lap faster than the rest of the entire field.

I pray that he doesn't cheat the field again next year. I'm just sick of seeing it. And I guess I'm more sick of seeing so much praise for Vettel like he's a racing god. If Kubica or Petrov would have let Alonso pass in 2010 like buddy buddy Schumacher and "not a teammate" Vergne did for Vettel in 2012, it would be 4 titles to 2 in favor of the Spaniard, not to mention being in an inferior car.

[4agze]

I'm not a vettel fan but I think the penalty for his burn out and not parking his car on the post race area was stupid, but 25,000euro is a drop in the bucket for red bull team. I also think mark webber's alleged alternator issue was a BS.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

- gimmicks like KERS and DRS: KERS did not improve the racing for the fans. DRS did though. But DRS isn't the answer, it only brings to light what the problem is... Aero. The cars cannot run close to each other because of aero and they get almost no benefit in the draft because of diffusers (aero) which reduce or eliminate any benefit to the trailing car. Ditch the gimmicks and address the underlying problem.

KERS let the companies pour money into research for something that does ultimately make sense from an engineering perspective so that's good. The way that they control energy per lap is dumb, you get boost for a bit and then it's dead weight for the rest of the lap because of some silly rule.

I see DRS as analogous to government subsidies and other economic meddling, they make up all these complicated stupid rules and then try to fix things by adding more complicated rules. How about just let the builders make the body however they want, maybe with an active aero ban, exhaust piping rules, and ground clearance requirements, that will cut the drag and make the air for following cars cleaner.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

So.... yeah. Vettel is just the hamster in a rocket-ship cage. An above-average driver who has a deviously-brilliant, rule-bending genius car designer make a car 2 seconds a lap faster than the rest of the entire field.

I knew all that stuff before you brought it up and I still think Vettel is good enough to be a champion in another car against a Newey design. Time will tell and I really do hope he gets a big head and jumps to another team. Remember, Newey was designing for Red Bull from 2006 onwards and Vettel won in the Junior team (2008) before the top of the line car could top the podium ('09), and even then it took Vettel to do it. Over three years of Newey influence before the first victory.

Most people are pegging Mercedes and Ferrari to get the engine right, with the Renault lagging behind, if the streak is going to be broken it will be next year.

I'm betting on Raikkonen even though I don't like Ferrari.

[cfusionpm]

At least he's giving credit where credit is due :P





"I'd like to thank Pirelli and Adrian Newey for making this epic streak possible! "

[rice_classic]

Driver's who have won championships in Newey's car:

Nigel Mansell
Alain Prost
Damon Hill
Jacques Villeneuve
Mika Hakkinen
Sebastian Vettel

10 Constructors titles in the last 21 years for Mr. Newey

Non-Newey champion teams in the last 20 years

Bennetton/Schumacher (2)
Ferrari/Schumacher (5)
Renault/Alonso (2)
Mclaren/Hamilton (1)
Brawn/Button (1)


The announcers (and drivers) often talk about how every driver wants to race for Ferrari, because Ferrari. I think that's changing and Mark Webber made the point very recently about how it's just such a rare opportunity to drive a Newey car and if he wasn't doing so he probably would have left F1 when Pirelli came on board.

That tells a bit about magnitude that is Adrian Newey, when F1 drivers would rather race in a Newey designed car, then be a driver for Ferrari. I have to say, I would agree. In the last 21 years, Ferrari has 5 titles, Newey has 10.

[finch1750]

So the championship is officially over, Kimi is thinking about going on strike over not bein paid.

http://www.carthrottle.com/lotus-has...nns-on-strike/

[PMPB]

Anybody know where to stream the Dubai race for free, nothing sketchy please. (Possibly HD)