Subaru Version of Toyota FT-86 Confirmed...But Not Yet For U.S.

[S2KtoFT86]

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

Its in my experience a lot of tuners ended up buying the yaris as a DD that ended up with a list of "mods to do". I knew a guy on the Matrix forums that bought his wife a Yaris and ended up tuning / turbo'd it. It was an impulse - once a tuner, always a tuner. You'll always find something to mod/enhance/change and then tune, weather you custom fabricate the mod or buy it - weather its a 1990 tool shed or a 2011 Toyota FT-86 -- you catch the bug and you can't cure it

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Blokatos

Talking in European terms, 1200 kgs is a threshold for a sports car to be considered lightweight although this may sound (and actually be) a generalization...

The new Lotus Evora weighs around 1350 kgs and has a 280 hp N/A 3.5 V6. It is considered quite lardy. The fact that Lotus has been producing very light sports cars could play a role into this but doesn't change people's perception.

As with everyone who brings up cars such as lotus, you have to keep the price range in perspective.

A Lotus is expensive, well, because its a lotus, but also because of the materials used in building the cars.

The FT is going to be a low $20k car. We're not going to see any carbon-fiber body panels, etc. being put on this car to lower the weight.

That being said, for a $20k FR car with its dimensions, I still think they can keep the weight ~2600, without going over the 2750 benchmark.

I think I've seen a few people say they would be surprised if it got lower than 2900. Thats just insane. There's keeping your expectations low so as to not get burned with the real product and then there's just insanity. If this car weighs in >2800lbs I will not only be shocked but also questioning Toyota's ability to engineer a wheel, let alone a car.

[OldSkoolToys]

Furthermore any basis on what weight this car is going to be is purely educated guessing, opinion, or a mixture of both. To use the yaris is a terrible example. The car has absolutely nothing in common with the FT. If you were to use a recent Toyota car to compare, it would have to be the last gen Celica, whose chassis was at least built for spirited driving.

The Celica weighed in at ~2500lbs with an overall length of 170.5 inches. Thats almost 7 inches longer than the FT-86 concept. Alright, so we're saving weight. Wrong, the FT-86 is RWD, which adds in extra weight for the drivetrain. The chassis also has to be a bit beefier because of the RWD setup. If accident regulations have changed in 4 years (to any amount significant to weight) then we have to factor that in as well.

Again its all just educated guessing. I'm throwing my last 2 cents in though on this topic. ~2600lbs (roughly 1160kg) Higher than 2750 and Toyota completely failed with this car.

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

The fact remains that Lots of people everywhere (especially in the pacific rim) tune the yaris/vitz and there is a lot of aftermarket support for it. Don't loose focus of the initial premise.

I haven't lost focus, which is why I continue to mention the total number of enthusiasts vs the overall ownership at large. Anyone can say that they think the Yaris has a large enthusiast following, based on internet phenomena, and their personal experience, but that is selection bias, not taking into account that typical Yaris owners don't join car forums or follow the latest news out of Japan with respect to their car.

Again, my point remains: the Yaris as point of reference for the FT86 does not work, for the reasons I previously mentioned, many of which were reinforced by Old Skoo (who also added in some new points as well).

[Slothman86]

Originally Posted by White Comet

No one's buying a Yaris to wind the piss out of it and possible slam into a mountain side pretending they're the ultimate Tofu delivery person.

oh yeah?...

lol

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by Slothman86

oh yeah?...

lol

Go back and re-read the discussion that's been going on between myself and a few other posters here, and maybe then you'll understand my point.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by White Comet

I haven't lost focus, which is why I continue to mention the total number of enthusiasts vs the overall ownership at large. Anyone can say that they think the Yaris has a large enthusiast following, based on internet phenomena, and their personal experience, but that is selection bias, not taking into account that typical Yaris owners don't join car forums or follow the latest news out of Japan with respect to their car.

Again, my point remains: the Yaris as point of reference for the FT86 does not work, for the reasons I previously mentioned, many of which were reinforced by Old Skoo (who also added in some new points as well).

I wasn't the one who used the Yaris as a base for comparison regarding the weight. That is not my point at all. You made a blanket statement and I corrected you. End of story. Do you want to argue just for the sake of arguing? There isn't anything else to it. I completely agree with OldSkool on his points, I share the same opinion.

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

I wasn't the one who used the Yaris as a base for comparison regarding the weight. That is not my point at all. You made a blanket statement and I corrected you.

You did not correct me. My point still stands. Toyota did not intend the Yaris to be used as a sports car.

[scape]

the reason i used the yaris as a comparison earlier is b/c it's still in production, relatively new, can handle 200hp setups, actually safe, and weighs hardly anything. my point is what would make the FT weigh in at 28-2900 lbs when a yaris weighs so little...I think there is a decent comparison to be had here, seeing my points, and such I don't see where on earth 5-600 lbs would come from? i think it's short sighted to assume it will weigh as much as other sports cars currently in production...

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by scape

the reason i used the yaris as a comparison earlier is b/c it's still in production, relatively new, can handle 200hp setups, actually safe, and weighs hardly anything. my point is what would make the FT weigh in at 28-2900 lbs when a yaris weighs so little...I think there is a decent comparison to be had here, seeing my points, and such I don't see where on earth 5-600 lbs would come from? i think it's short sighted to assume it will weigh as much as other sports cars currently in production...

Fair enough, but my skepticism still holds because you are comparing an FWD economy car to a RWD sports car. That alone is enough to make the comparison moot, as Old Skoo explained, as per the drivetrain differences. My point also stands that to get this car down to the desired price and have the target power, there is going to be some platform sharing with heavier pieces. The Yaris doesn't have this problem because it's fairly decontented and really only needs to share parts with other economy cars that don't make a lot of power (and therefore don't require a lot of reinforcement for stress).

I think 2800-2900 lbs might be too skeptical (even for me), but 2400 lbs? Not a freaking chance. Not for 21 grand.

[scape]

well then let's hope it meets in the middle b/c heavy will not bode well...

[White Comet]

Originally Posted by scape

well then let's hope it meets in the middle b/c heavy will not bode well...

:happy0180:
Agreed. If it comes out at 2600 lbs and has 180-200 hp, I'll be happy. If it weighs any less than that, I'll be ecstatic.

[hoffo]

Originally Posted by White Comet

:happy0180:
Agreed. If it comes out at 2600 lbs and has 180-200 hp, I'll be happy. If it weighs any less than that, I'll be ecstatic.

Totally agree

[Matador]

Originally Posted by White Comet

You did not correct me. My point still stands. Toyota did not intend the Yaris to be used as a sports car.

And my point is that it is used as a tuner car regardless of what Toyota's original intention for it was.