Crawford's BRZ got hurt

[Tanuki]

That has always been the gray area on track driving really.

If someone hits you, wrecks your car etc, who is responsible? Really, no one has to pay for anything, because it is an incurred risk and totally part of what you are signing into by racing.

BUT racing is a gentleman's sport. A race car driver at a local or club level (private driver) will work toward some kind of resolution with the other driver if they make a careless blatant mistake. I have fellow drivers who have hit other racers on track, and helped with repairs in whatever way they could, although there really is nothing that says you are responsible to do anything for the other person. Racing is about observation, understanding, and respect on track.

I have participated in events with multiple super cars including, but not exclusive to: MP4-12C, Gallardo, 911 GT3RS, 458 Italia. These drivers had cars which were much faster than the competition, but the drivers had total control and had a lot of respect for their surroundings. They did not make careless decisions with no regard for the other drivers on track. These drivers were competitive, but not completely stupid. There is a difference between an open track day and door to door racing. Many people do not understand that.

I would be interested to see what licensing Mr. Kim has after 7 long years of experience on track? I see people show up to our NASA events all the time with similar stories of "experience," only to find them stopping mid corner to point me by.

Finally, I am one that believes that track loses are completely relative to income and opportunity cost. I might make 50k a year, own a $40k car and race this car. If I lose that car in an accident, I just lost 80% of my annual income in an accident. Maybe I had track insurance, maybe I did not? Maybe the car had a loan? There are many factors. Now let's figure in the $250k price on that Mclaren compared to Mr. Kim's net worth. I do not know what he is worth, but I would imagine it is more than $1 million. So what percent of what he is worth, is that car worth?

I guess what I am getting at, is that even though the car is worth a lot more, relative to what he has, he has a lot less to lose by driving carelessly. My personal race car is not worth 80% of my income, but it is worth enough that I would have a hard time replacing it right away. I push my car to the limit, but I am not careless either. Saying you go 7/10's in the car has nothing to do with driving like an idiot. In my opinion, his 7/10's was 7/10's of his brain being used while driving.

Anyway, I am glad the crawford car came out with minimal damage, and I hope some video surfaces soon to show the details of what happened.

Here is a video of these enthusiasts driving their cars around MMP.

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Or get HPDE Insurance, it's a lot cheaper than writing off a newer car.

For the 2nd item, many groups allow unrestricted passing (but point bys are required) in turns for the advanced groups.. this isn't uncommon. Now we don't know for sure if they required point bys at this event nor do we know if crawford gave a point by, or at least I don't know, I'm sure someone does

Exactly, if he has the right HPDE licensing and this is a sanctioned event, then yeah, there is passing allowed, but that would have all been covered at the drivers meeting haha.

[Opie]

Looks like the McLaren driver ran out of talent at the same time his GoPro ran out of batteries....

[Style]

"Oh man, the battery to my GoPro is dead, here let me leave it on the window just because it looks cool even though it wont do anything."

I don't get why he would leave it on there. If he knew it was dead why still leave it there?! I think that jut proves that hes a fault. Crawford's got some video and I'm sure someone here will post the link to it on their forum.

Oh and remember guys we are all ****heads and live with our parents in their basements!

[Celica00]

look, this guy had it coming. he nearly crashed on the way to the event (which was for 86s, not mclarens) he missed the drivers meeting which is grounds for not being allowed on the track alone. he has a bunch of vids showing how wrecklessly he drives. he doesnt own up to it being his fault.

its like he went to someone elses party uninvited, trashed the place, then bitched about the hosts. really classy guy.

[Sigh-on-Rice]

Last night, I saw a post in ML by a witness describing how the accident happened. But it's deleted now.

It was something like the person was watching it from the bridge. On his post, he was asking the owner of the car what happened.

[cnk]

Originally Posted by Sigh-on-Rice

Last night, I saw a post in ML by a witness describing how the accident happened. But it's deleted now.

It was something like the person was watching it from the bridge. On his post, he was asking the owner of the car what happened.

I saw it as well, but the poster looked to have just registered to the forum and that was his first post. Most likely it was deleted as the mods thought they were trolling.

[Tanuki]

Originally Posted by Sigh-on-Rice

Last night, I saw a post in ML by a witness describing how the accident happened. But it's deleted now.

It was something like the person was watching it from the bridge. On his post, he was asking the owner of the car what happened.

That is the one I was referring to earlier when I said our members are cross posting. The person who posted that only had 1 post.

[silversprint]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Or get HPDE Insurance, it's a lot cheaper than writing off a newer car.

For the 2nd item, many groups allow unrestricted passing (but point bys are required) in turns for the advanced groups.. this isn't uncommon. Now we don't know for sure if they required point bys at this event nor do we know if crawford gave a point by, or at least I don't know, I'm sure someone does

HPDE insurance on that Mclaren would have probably required a $40-$50K deductable. Obviously still much cheaper than a total loss on that car.

This particular run group is advanced drivers with open passing anywhere on track with no point-by required. Race like conditions. Drivers have to be approved to sign up for this group.

[Sigh-on-Rice]

Originally Posted by cnk

I saw it as well, but the poster looked to have just registered to the forum and that was his first post. Most likely it was deleted as the mods thought they were trolling.

Originally Posted by Tanuki

That is the one I was referring to earlier when I said our members are cross posting. The person who posted that only had 1 post.

Ah, I see. I missed that it was his first post.

[SubieNate]

So the real question should be, if he missed the driver's meeting and showed up driving like an ape, why was he allowed to run in the top class of the day? Seems like the race organizers could have avoided this mess entirely.

Nathan

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

So the real question should be, if he missed the driver's meeting and showed up driving like an ape, why was he allowed to run in the top class of the day? Seems like the race organizers could have avoided this mess entirely.

Nathan

I agree there if that's what happened. He would not have been allowed on the track at any event I run/help run.

[engee]

Found a video. Helps with some stuff.

From the video, if the BRZ was the culprit it's surprising how calm and composed his car is after impact whereas the 12C looks to have considerable speed and is out of control.





Accident happened on Turn 10 and Turn 11.

Option 1: If what the McClaren said is true, BRZ would've clipped the 12C on turn 11 in order to force a spin where 12C would impact wall with the right side of car.

Option 2: If what the BRZ said is true, 12C went in hot in turn 10, slid out and hit the BRZ, overcorrected and spun in front of the BRZ and impacted the wall on with the right side of car.

Pictures of damage suggest Option 2 more than Option 1.

That's the extent of my sleuthing abilities. Just waiting for Crawford's video now.

[vhx1]

Turn 10 and 11 aren't really a turn.. it's more a of slight right left kink that is taken taken flat out like a straight away. You can watch some videos of ppl driving on ACS to see what it looks like. I have driven on that track many times and don't lift off gas in that section. No one really loses control in that section without some external factors (like a car getting clipped in the rear).