Frs vs s2000

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

I will echo the comment about the S2k being a "tiring" everyday car. The gearing sucks for it, the complete and utter lack of power below 5k sucks and lack of room and high road noise just drains. I made custom ear plugs for long trips so I didn't show up at my destination drained and irritated, which worked great when the top was down!

Just looked up your highway rpm. IIRC Honda speedos don't lie whereas my Spyder speedo lies a ton, so we're turning about the same rpms...3500rpm, just under 65mph.

Yea about that, 3500rpm on the highway + softtop really really sucks...again, I don't drive this everyday but I make 1 hour trips sometimes and I find myself wishing for there to be a bit of congestion on the freeway so I can go slower and deal with less noise. Never sat in an S2000 before but it probably has just as bad wind noise. Additionally, when you get up to higher speeds you can start hearing the soft top flap around in the wind. It feels incredibly weird cruising at a higher rpm than you use to accelerate...like a little fire started in your wallet :P I try to go slower so my ears don't ring, mpg is also pretty good under 60mph lol. When the clutch needs work I'm putting a lower 5th gear in even if the mpg increase doesn't pay off.

When they released the AP2 they should've at least kept the primary reduction ratio the same, they freaking stroked the engine, why do they need higher revs at the same time? Stupidest gearing choice ever made.

[iLuveKetchup]

I drove a BRZ (granted not this topic's FRS) this past weekend. I must say, it is a great car! I really like the creature comforts and the space. Although I didn't like the feel of the clutch. The clutch's resistance wasn't the same through out its range. But that's something than I can get use to.

I wouldn't get rid of my CR for one. But if I didn't have a CR, I would most definitely get a new BRZ/FRS over a used s2k. IMO, the BRZ/FRS is 8/10ths the performance of an s2k. BUT it can do alot of things that an s2k cannot do -- fit tires in the trunk, space for groceries, etc...just better daily use.

I liked it so much that I want to add a BRZ/FRS to the garage.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fl_speed001

Not sure where you guys are pricing your S2Ks either...decent mileage AP2s (~50k) can be had for 15-19 all day long, as long as you aren't looking for Grand Prix white or CR versions.

What if it's a GPW CR...?

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

I wouldn't get rid of my CR for one. But if I didn't have a CR, I would most definitely get a new BRZ/FRS over a used s2k. IMO, the BRZ/FRS is 8/10ths the performance of an s2k. BUT it can do alot of things that an s2k cannot do -- fit tires in the trunk, space for groceries, etc...just better daily use.

Couldn't agree more.

[fl_speed001]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What if it's a GPW CR...?



Couldn't agree more.

GPW CRs are the holy grail of the S2000...expect to pay a hefty premium for it! But worth every penny if that's what you want and have the patience and luck to find one!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by fl_speed001

GPW CRs are the holy grail of the S2000...expect to pay a hefty premium for it! But worth every penny if that's what you want and have the patience and luck to find one!

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Just looked up your highway rpm. IIRC Honda speedos don't lie whereas my Spyder speedo lies a ton, so we're turning about the same rpms...3500rpm, just under 65mph.

Can you elaborate. I'm missing something.

In my AP1 I would turn about 4k at 70mph (as did the Integra Type R) but my FRS at 70mph is closer to 3200rpms (6MT) and the AT is even less.

I don't know about the S2k Speedo, it seemed pretty accurate, buti recall Honda speedos not being very accurate. CRX, Accord, Integra and my 4th gen prelude.. compared them all against radar (and some against GPS) and they were off, by as much as 5mph.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Can you elaborate. I'm missing something.

In my AP1 I would turn about 4k at 70mph (as did the Integra Type R) but my FRS at 70mph is closer to 3200rpms (6MT) and the AT is even less.

I don't know about the S2k Speedo, it seemed pretty accurate, buti recall Honda speedos not being very accurate. CRX, Accord, Integra and my 4th gen prelude.. compared them all against radar (and some against GPS) and they were off, by as much as 5mph.

According to our GPS dataloggers, both cars read slightly high on the in-car speedo by about 1%

3000 RPM is exactly 70MPH for us according to the BRZ's digital speedo, but GPS indicates 68.7. This number might be slightly off, since we're running 215/45/17 on a 8" wheel, rather than the factory 7".

[veuxx]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Just looked up your highway rpm. IIRC Honda speedos don't lie whereas my Spyder speedo lies a ton, so we're turning about the same rpms...3500rpm, just under 65mph.

Yea about that, 3500rpm on the highway + softtop really really sucks...again, I don't drive this everyday but I make 1 hour trips sometimes and I find myself wishing for there to be a bit of congestion on the freeway so I can go slower and deal with less noise. Never sat in an S2000 before but it probably has just as bad wind noise. Additionally, when you get up to higher speeds you can start hearing the soft top flap around in the wind. It feels incredibly weird cruising at a higher rpm than you use to accelerate...like a little fire started in your wallet :P I try to go slower so my ears don't ring, mpg is also pretty good under 60mph lol. When the clutch needs work I'm putting a lower 5th gear in even if the mpg increase doesn't pay off.

When they released the AP2 they should've at least kept the primary reduction ratio the same, they freaking stroked the engine, why do they need higher revs at the same time? Stupidest gearing choice ever made.

Almost everyone in the s2k prefers the AP1 despite the mileage.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Can you elaborate. I'm missing something.

In my AP1 I would turn about 4k at 70mph (as did the Integra Type R) but my FRS at 70mph is closer to 3200rpms (6MT) and the AT is even less.

I don't know about the S2k Speedo, it seemed pretty accurate, buti recall Honda speedos not being very accurate. CRX, Accord, Integra and my 4th gen prelude.. compared them all against radar (and some against GPS) and they were off, by as much as 5mph.

Spyder speedo is off by 9% ish, so my "70mph" is actually less than 65. True 70mph arrives at 3800rpmish. OBDII knows the speedo is lying because it reports about 9% under I think. Haven't ever actually calculated it, but it's somewhere around there. I can drive past one of those radar speed limit signs and it'll tell me I'm doing 24mph when I'm supposedly rolling by at over 25mph.

I looked on some S2k forum and someone wrote "3500rpm at 65mph" so I thought that was accurate. I know the AP2 has a longer 6th gear but only by a little since the primary reduction ratio is bigger.

Originally Posted by veuxx

Almost everyone in the s2k prefers the AP1 despite the mileage.

Mileage? AP2 gets worse gas mileage no? Shorter gears + more displacement? What I'm saying is that the AP2 gearing isn't a whole lot better for comfortable cruising, I would get an AP1 if I got an S2000, then I'd probably swap out the 6th gear for the .762 one.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Spyder speedo is off by 9% ish, so my "70mph" is actually less than 65. True 70mph arrives at 3800rpmish. OBDII knows the speedo is lying because it reports about 9% under I think. Haven't ever actually calculated it, but it's somewhere around there. I can drive past one of those radar speed limit signs and it'll tell me I'm doing 24mph when I'm supposedly rolling by at over 25mph.

Ok. I have an AIM SOLO data acquisition device which can accurately calculate MPH along with the GPS Speedo app on my phone. I'll use both for internal validity and conduct experiment to find out how off my FRS speedo is.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Ok. I have an AIM SOLO data acquisition device which can accurately calculate MPH along with the GPS Speedo app on my phone. I'll use both for internal validity and conduct experiment to find out how off my FRS speedo is.

Have you been able to read the CANbus off OBDII? I'm assuming you have the Solo DL; ours can't read OBDII

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by veuxx

Almost everyone in the s2k prefers the AP1 despite the mileage.

Are you speaking of the AP1 gearing? As an AP2 motor with an AP1 trans?

The reason I ask is that if you have ever driven an AP1 you'll know that it's excruciatingly slow. It seems to take forever to get to redline. I wouldn't want an AP1 at all!! While it might not show on paper, the difference from AP1 & AP2 is night and day. However, the ideal combination would be an 06+ AP2 with AP1 transmission.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Have you been able to read the CANbus off OBDII? I'm assuming you have the Solo DL; ours can't read OBDII

I have the regular SOLO because I bought it for the race car which is OBD0, also it was a gift so beggars can't be choosers.

However it is accurate to less than half a tenth of a second to my AMB transponder lap times which is massively impressive so I'm sure it will be accurate enough.

[fl_speed001]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I see what you did there...

And that's how the debate should be settled...which white beauty am I thrashing today!?!