Production Spec Subaru BRZ Previewed at National Conference & Latest Info/Rumors

[Spaceywilly]

I also got a quick look at a production-spec RWD sport coupe. I can't say much other than it look very good in a mini-Maserati kind of way. Forget the plexiglass show car, those are not the lines at all. Its much sexier. I'm in love and really want one to compliment my WRX.

There was a strict no-photo policy at the coupe unveil

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=2363

I just got back from the 2011 Subaru National Business conference. Yesterday I did a ride-and-drive of the 2012 Impreza. My thoughts::

Background: I'm a long time auto enthusiast and experienced autocrosser. My daily driver is a 2006 WRX and my wife drives a 2008 2.5i premium sedan so I have quite a bit of perspective on the last two previous generation Imprezas. This ride-and-drive was held in a large parking lot and consisted of 3 driving stations, each with a very short course meant to highlight one or two dynamic features. These are quick impressions, formed without the benefit of much time behind the wheel or any time driving the car on real roads in real-world traffic.

Powertrain performance: One station was a ~400' drag strip where 2011 and 2012 Impeza's ran side-by-side. You got to drive once in each car. Unfortunately it was restricted to automatic transmission cars. With the auto, it was pretty much a toss-up. In general, whoever cut the best light won. If the two cars got the same launch they were neck-and-neck all the way. I was pleasantly surprised with the 2.0. It felt more powerful than I expected and revved very smoothly. The CVT obviously helps performance compared to the old 4EAT. I'm told the 2012 manual cars will have "gearing adjustments" compared to the 2011's so I would expect the results would be similar, if not exactly the same. Overall, I'd guess most people who thought the 2.5i performed well enough will think this performs well enough and those who think this is too slow would probably think the same of the 2.5i. It will be a thin segment of people, in my opinion, who would find the actual performance of then new 2.0 objectionable but the current 2.5 satisfactory.

Handling: This car handles substantially better than the current 2.5i. There is less body roll, helped no doubt by the standard rear sway bar. Grip, at least with the 17" alloy wheel package which all the test cars had, seems improved. All the test cars had Yokohama Avid S34s; there wasn't an RE92 to be found anywhere! The steering assist is now electric instead of hydraulic. There is a little less feel, but the steering is very accurate and rather quick. Not crazy-quick like in a MINI Cooper or EVO VIII, but certainly quicker than in my WRX. One benefit of the electric steering is that there is no cavitation in the rack on quick back-to-back transitions, something I sometimes encounter when autocrossing my WRX. Because of the quick ratio and lack of cavitation, the new Impreza zipped through a tight multi-cone slalom in a very impressive fashion. I wish it were this easy in my WRX. As expected in this segment, the terminal attitude is moderate understeer. One station included a tight-ish 180 on wet pavement. The front started to wash out a bit, but the stability control came in subtly and kept the push to a minimum without impeding the progress. The slalom station had a very tight decreasing-radius 180 on dry pavement. Understeer was more pronounced here, although I'm not sure anything short of a compact RWD sports car like a miata would have been able to get though that without noticeable push.

Styling: I'm generally biased towards hatches. I like the hatch of the current Impreza better than the sedan. My initial impression of the PICTURES of the new Impreza had me more excited about the hatch. I thought the sedan looked like an improvement, but nothing remarkable. In 3-D sheet metal, however, the sedan came off as the more handsome of the two. It's not exactly stunning, but its much more attractive than the baby-Legacy impression it makes when seen in pics. The hatch is more "square" at the back than the current model; this gives it better cargo capacity but it makes it look a little chunkier than the sedan. I like them both, but think the sedan will be the choice of the vast majority of buyers. Inside this will be the nicest Subaru available; not only nicer than the current Impreza but nicer even than the Legacy/Outback. Gone is the hard-plastic on the dash and top of the door cards. Materials are top-notch, and the styling is attractive. Some of the cars had leather which felt quite rich. The cars with cloth seats had a "sport mesh" fabric like that found in the GD RS/WRX. Styling is obviously subjective, but I think most shoppers are going to find the new car much more attractive than the current version.

Other Notes: What we drove I think were "premium" and "limited" trims. There were not any "base" models to drive or even see. I did get to see (but not drive) a few "Sport" trim hatches. The "Outback" half of the moniker has apparently been dropped. One was all-silver (like has been shown in the press photographs), and there were a couple two-tones; Green over silver and carbon black over dark grey.

Base pricing on the new Impreza will be surprisingly competitive. Can't say the exact number but I can say it will be very close to the current price. Will have to wait and see what the optioned up versions cost. Expect the very first ones to hit dealers in late November, and significant ground stock to be established by early Feb.

I also got a quick look at a production-spec RWD sport coupe. I can't say much other than it look very good in a mini-Maserati kind of way. Forget the plexiglass show car, those are not the lines at all. Its much sexier. I'm in love and really want one to compliment my WRX.

I have some pics if anyone is willing to host them. (Of the Imprezas, not the coupe. There was a strict no-photo policy at the couple unveil)

[RRnold]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

I also got a quick look at a production-spec RWD sport coupe. I can't say much other than it look very good in a mini-Maserati kind of way. Forget the plexiglass show car, those are not the lines at all. Its much sexier. I'm in love and really want one to compliment my WRX.

There was a strict no-photo policy at the coupe unveil

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...postcount=2363

Ah that explains it. Thanks! :happy0180:

Damn, I really want to see it now and getting excited to see what it'll look like!

Mini Maserati huh... I like where he's going with that!

[Buggy51]

Better than the dealer I went to, today ~_~;

Haven't heard about the BRZ (though they are trying to sell me the WRX for some reason...), and then claimed that its not even coming to the US now. Then they pointed me to the Scion dealership next door lol. Went inside the Toyota/Scion office and they didn't really have much info but they sounded at least excited about the car.

[Giccin]

25k is a stretch for base.. a really big stretch.

I agree with Ichi and Trans. 19k Base start is the way to go. With 25k... there better be a damn sexy man that comes with the car.

[Matador]

$25k is a lot for a base model, but when the guy said that it would be priced between the impreza and the legacy, did he say anything about their base price? Pretty sure those can wind up pretty expensive optioned up.

[Mr.Jay]

25K is huuge for a base pricce this car better be made out of light weight diamond for that kind of money and this is very different from the 27K fully loaded that I was told by my Scion dealer but then again I did know more about the car than them

[PACMAN]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

200hp, 2900lbs, 25k? Nobody will buy it. Right next to it in the Subaru dealership will be a WRX that has 265hp, 3100lbs, for the same price. Or they could get a GTI, MS3, GC, V6 mustang, Miata, the list goes on and on and on. And that's not even getting into the used cars you can get for 25k. It better shit rainbows and cook me breakfast if it costs 25k.

200hp, 2700lbs, 19k makes a whole lot more sense.

:happy0180:

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

$25k is a lot for a base model, but when the guy said that it would be priced between the impreza and the legacy, did he say anything about their base price? Pretty sure those can wind up pretty expensive optioned up.

Not directly, in the article he was quoted as it being positioned between the Impreza and Legacy. The writer then followed immediately with the base prices of the Impreza $18k and Legacy $20k. But those base models are stripped and come with steelies, so I'm thinking it will be between the two at whatever their equivalently optioned models are. So I seriously doubt the $19k speculation.

That being said, I would be all over a $19k BRZ (whatafuckingstupidname) if it were stripped and had steelies.

[tranzformer]

Well guys I should preface this by saying I'm not just being a smart ass with this post. This really is info I got this evening from my local Subaru dealer. Take it as a grain of salt as it is also unconfirmed. You can flame away at the info, but don't flame at me.

Tonight my wife and I pre-ordered a new '12 Impreza Sport. As we were about to leave I was speaking with the sales manager as I knew he had been to the recent Subaru new vehicle test drive for dealers in Chicago. We talked a bit about the new '12 Impreza and then at the end I asked him if he had seen the new coupe. He said he had and I was able to get the following out of him. Take it for what it is.

- His words "the coupe looks really really nice" even though he is a die hard Subaru fan and isn't sure why they didn't include AWD (we all know why here) he said he is so tempted to buy one even though it is not AWD.

- "Subaru hasn't decided if it will come in just manual or also auto." Mentioned something along the lines that there was talk this could just come in manual.

- "Price is expected to be around $20k."

- Was told to "only expect 1-2 coupe's in the first 6-12 months of its release"

- Said that he hadn't heard "if they had decided on a name" (remember Chicago event happened before BZR name was released, so he probably hasn't kept up with all the news/rumors like us)


I think that is it from what I could get out of him. I would have dug for more info but my wife was there and I didn't want her to feel like I was interrogating him Jack Bauer style.

The comment that surprised me most was not another confirmation about the price expected to be around $20k but that Subaru had not decided whether this would be offered as a manual only or also an auto version. I know Scion confirmed at NYIAS the option of an auto. I don't know if SOA blog confirmed an auto in their version? Dimman, do you remember anything along those lines? But maybe Subaru is considering a manual only version ala like the WRX/STI? Then Scion would offer the manual and/or auto version. Who knows, that is just speculation on my part.

Sounds like this car might be hard to come by for awhile? If they are only going to get 1-2 in the first 6-12 months, I might need to move up my purchase plans for a new car or wait longer than I had expected (if I really end up wanting this car after Tokyo).

[aloretoc]

I really doubt it will be price around $25k. They would be shooting themselves on the foot to have that car compete for the same price as the impreza WRX, not only that, the genesis coupe 2.0T for $22k would be a much better option for customers looking for some bang for their bucks IMO.

[Dimman]

Tranz, I'm still suspicious about SOA Blog's information access. I feel they will get permission to release it/get told the facts at roughly the same time as the official releases.

(I'm Burnman on Nasioc, in case you haven't figured that out.)

Aside from that, Subaru not offering an automatic is astoundingly stupid. They've never had an attractive fast-back coupe before to attract the 'secretaries' that buy/bought RSX, Civic coupes, Celicas, G35/7s, on looks alone. They will lose a LOT of those potential sales if they don't offer an auto.

[tranzformer]

^ I agree that Subaru not offering an auto option would limit the number of potential sales and would not be a wise move on their part. I personally could care less either way as I want a manual.

[Spaceywilly]

Good info tranzformer. I might have to go see about putting a deposit down if they're only getting 2 for 12 months... that's nuts. Did he mean per month?

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing

$25k is a lot for a base model, but when the guy said that it would be priced between the impreza and the legacy, did he say anything about their base price? Pretty sure those can wind up pretty expensive optioned up.

A Legacy premium is 21k, and an impreza premium is 19,500, so around 20-21k for the BRZ with options that are equivalent to the impreza/legacy premium makes sense. I think I would prefer a 19k base model with steelies, depending on what the alloys look like, and whether they are 5x100.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

Good info tranzformer. I might have to go see about putting a deposit down if they're only getting 2 for 12 months... that's nuts. Did he mean per month?

He just said they have been told not to expect more than 1-2 for the first 6-12 months. Not sure if he was trying to hype it up or what. But that sure seems like a limited supply for the first bit. So hopefully that isn't the case. But again he is just a sales guy, so fairly far down stream from the top of the ladder.