SOA CEO Takeshi Tachimori gives pricing hint for BRZ coupe

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Zaku

AH my apologies again everyone, I saw this post and automatically I thought I read four door and not 4 seats so I asked about the sedan lol. Maybe somewhere in the back of my mind I just want a fun RWD sedan that's not boring like the LEXUS IS...but I wouldn't mind it if they came out with something similar to the old Altezza.

Now Im just curious about the price of the subie compared to the price of the SCION as I think msot of us or alot of us thought the Subie could be 25K +

lol those time, don't you wish, you live in Japan? They have Mark series, Chaser, Skyline, Aristo, & all other FR sedans

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

I don't get what you mean by parts bin. I think you are mistaken.

Parts bin means generally not everything is designed from the ground up for the car. But every company does it to some degree these days.

A criticism of the Ford-era Aston Martin and Jaguars was the 'parts bin' switches and vents and stuff that were shared with the Contour etc...

The Geneva clear car showed what was basically new Impreza/Legacy suspension bits, which is what he may be referring to. But given that the brakes are different between that car and the spy shots, who knows if that is really the case?

I would've liked to see some effort made to get a compact double wishbone suspension in the front, but oh-well. Plenty of awesome cars still use front MacStruts.

Parts bin is fine by me at $19k...

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Marrk

Is that good? Are they well made? How about the gearbox? Tight gates and short throws? Or the sloppy stuff, like on a daily driver?

All the Aisin transmissions (manuals) that I've had have been great.

[PACMAN]

IS IT DECEMBER YET??? I'M GETTING IMPATIENT!!!!

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

lol those time, don't you wish, you live in Japan? They have Mark series, Chaser, Skyline, Aristo, & all other FR sedans

We have FR Sedans. They're all limited to certain luxury cars in the US. What's so special about those FR sedan?

Originally Posted by Marrk

There is a "parts bin" aspect to all this that is a little depressing. But I guess that's the only way to achieve the $19k price point.

This doesn't meet the definition of parts binning. The transmission is going to be designed for the car from a base design(all of the Aisin gearboxes are fairly unique to the manufacturer) and the engine is getting a full workover being built for GDI with port injection and with some Yamaha input. The chassis is even getting a full design for the unique layout. As far as I know nothing on this car will be shared with anything but the family of FT86s and Subaru Coupes.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

What's so special about those FR sedans?



This doesn't meet the definition of parts binning. The transmission is going to be designed for the car from a base design(all of the Aisin gearboxes are unique to the manufacturer) and the engine is getting a full workover being built for GDI with port injection. The chassis is even getting a full design for the unique layout.

As far as I know nothing on this car will be shared with anything but the family of FT86s and Subaru Coupes.

The suspension is a toss up at the moment. Geneva showed the new Legacy/Impreza rear multilink with upper wishbone on it, but it also showed different brakes than are on the spy shots.

Also I don't quite follow what you mean with the Aisin transmissions. Do you mean like everyone can pick their 'series' (AX15 for example) and then they modify it to it their particular engine? (Toyota turns it into R154)

Edit: Oh and about what WAS special (don't know currently) was 1JZGTE power in either twin turbo, or fast-spooling VVT-i single turbo forms, and the above mentioned R154 transmission (Chaser and Mark). Or sequential twin turbo 2JZGTE, or AWD 1UZFE V8 (Aristo), Skyline had the RB25 turbo. All from the factory.

[Buggy51]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Parts bin means generally not everything is designed from the ground up for the car. But every company does it to some degree these days.

A criticism of the Ford-era Aston Martin and Jaguars was the 'parts bin' switches and vents and stuff that were shared with the Contour etc...

The Geneva clear car showed what was basically new Impreza/Legacy suspension bits, which is what he may be referring to. But given that the brakes are different between that car and the spy shots, who knows if that is really the case?

I would've liked to see some effort made to get a compact double wishbone suspension in the front, but oh-well. Plenty of awesome cars still use front MacStruts.

Parts bin is fine by me at $19k...

LFA parts bin? >_>

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Buggy51

LFA parts bin? >_>

We can dream.

[Marrk]

I think you guys get what I mean by "parts bin." If something is designed and built specifically for a car, that is one standard. On the other hand, if something is sourced from another application, then you are often dealing with compromises on one end or the other.

A "manufacture" watch is different from, and is almost always valued more highly than, a watch that uses an ETA ébauche. Or, to try for another example, a "clean sheet of paper" design is quite a bit different from whatever you call the alternative.

Also, I question the wisdom of so many collaborators (Toyota, Subaru, Yamaha, the various parts suppliers, like Aisin, et al). A Toyota injection system on a Subaru head could be genius. Or it could be like asking a champion race horse jockey to drive in LeMans.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the FT-86 can't be a great car. I'm just making note of some critical junctures that have to work at a high level.

Hope that makes sense.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I think you guys get what I mean by "parts bin." If something is designed and built specifically for a car, that is one standard. On the other hand, if something is sourced from another application, then you are often dealing with compromises on one end or the other.

A "manufacture" watch is different from, and is almost always valued more highly than, a watch that uses an ETA ébauche. Or, to try for another example, a "clean sheet of paper" design is quite a bit different from whatever you call the alternative.

Also, I question the wisdom of so many collaborators (Toyota, Subaru, Yamaha, the various parts suppliers, like Aisin, et al). A Toyota injection system on a Subaru head could be genius. Or it could be like asking a champion race horse jockey to drive in LeMans.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the FT-86 can't be a great car. I'm just making note of some critical junctures that have to work at a high level.

Hope that makes sense.

Not really. This isn't Red Green, taking two totally different things and duct-taping them together.

These are teams of professional engineers using systems that are designed with degrees of modularity and interchangeability. It's not like you need to custom design each bolt from the ground up.

It's just the way cars are made, as it keeps tooling and product supply chain costs down. And it can have interesting positive side effects. For example GD chassis Imprezas and BD chassis Legacies have enough similarities that I can use WRX, and even some STI suspension and brake components on my Legacy. Right now I have WRX struts and wheels on it. Next mod is brakes and control arms. So in that sense Impreza and Legacy are 'parts bin' to each other too. Not a big deal.

[1660]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I think you guys get what I mean by "parts bin." If something is designed and built specifically for a car, that is one standard. On the other hand, if something is sourced from another application, then you are often dealing with compromises on one end or the other.

A "manufacture" watch is different from, and is almost always valued more highly than, a watch that uses an ETA ébauche. Or, to try for another example, a "clean sheet of paper" design is quite a bit different from whatever you call the alternative.

Also, I question the wisdom of so many collaborators (Toyota, Subaru, Yamaha, the various parts suppliers, like Aisin, et al). A Toyota injection system on a Subaru head could be genius. Or it could be like asking a champion race horse jockey to drive in LeMans.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the FT-86 can't be a great car. I'm just making note of some critical junctures that have to work at a high level.

Hope that makes sense.

No. Would you go to a stupid person for the right answer? A horse jockey to drive Le Mans? I question your wisdom.

[SUB-FT86]

This is the best news in months!!!

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Not really. This isn't Red Green, taking two totally different things and duct-taping them together.

These are teams of professional engineers using systems that are designed with degrees of modularity and interchangeability. It's not like you need to custom design each bolt from the ground up.

It's just the way cars are made, as it keeps tooling and product supply chain costs down. And it can have interesting positive side effects. For example GD chassis Imprezas and BD chassis Legacies have enough similarities that I can use WRX, and even some STI suspension and brake components on my Legacy. Right now I have WRX struts and wheels on it. Next mod is brakes and control arms. So in that sense Impreza and Legacy are 'parts bin' to each other too. Not a big deal.

You are undoubtedly right. I am being a little more fussy than I need to be.

I just like the idea of a bunch of engineers sitting around saying, "This is what we want to achieve. Let's make the parts to do it." instead of, "This is what we want to achieve, what compromises do we have to make to make it work with the parts that are available." But, again, that's not really what these guys are doing, is it?

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by 1660

No. Would you go to a stupid person for the right answer? A horse jockey to drive Le Mans? I question your wisdom.

I'll grant that that was an ungainly analogy. The point that I was trying to make was that, just because Subaru are experts in liquid cooled boxers, doesn't mean they can easily incorporate an injection system from a V engine or an inline engine. Further, just because Subaru and Toyota both make great cars doesn't automatically mean that they can successful cooperate and coordinate on a shared project. It's conceivable that each has a culture of manufacturing and engineering that is incompatible with the other.

On the other hand, I am probably just looking for things to worry about.