Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[Sean K.]

Originally Posted by hampersnow

After not purchasing an FR-S yesterday from my idiot salesman who refuses to believe there is any real problem, I did get a call back from another "nicer" salesman who took the time to at least research all the documentation I had brought in. He repeated back to me all I've already read online, although he did mention there were only a few cases. i countered with 152 is not a few.
I emailed the Manager of the dealership about the treatment I received and he called me this morning. He says he called Toyota and was told that this is a minor problem that JUST requires a reflash, nothing about replacing the ECU. when mentioned this goes against all I have read online, he tried to throw doubt on everything printed in this forum or even the press.
So I called Toyota with my concerns and I did get an answer from whoever this guy Jose is to the numbers affected and he said "it's only a small number about 5% or less." (is 5% THAT small?)He explained that Toyota was handling it case by case as to whether your ECU were replaced or not, and not whether is was under or over 100 miles. He would not comment on Suburu's handling of the same problem and he said he couldn't speak on whether this issue would become a service release or not, but since he brought up that point I would think they understand this issue is causing a bit of bad publicity. It was obvious i was not the first person to call concerning this.
The more people who call and complain the better. As i was writing this I was again called by the manager of the dealership who supposedly was trying to get me a free extension on the warranty as an incentive to buy it. He could not. His parting words were "well hopefully sometime in the future Toyota can win back your trust".

I'm very surprised a representative gave a number like that. 5% is very statistically significant from a mfg perspective.....especially since initiatives like Lean and Six Sigma shoot for 3.4 defects per million.

I wouldn't however, put a ton of stock in what this guy said.....he could be just making it up. If anything, we've proven in this thread over and over that the reps haven't been correct in the information they've provided in the past.

If it is correct though....that's a fairly significant problem from a mfr's defect standpoint.

[jduffy]

Originally Posted by Sean K.

I'm very surprised a representative gave a number like that. 5% is very statistically significant from a mfg perspective.....especially since initiatives like Lean and Six Sigma shoot for 3.4 defects per million.

I wouldn't however, put a ton of stock in what this guy said.....he could be just making it up. If anything, we've proven in this thread over and over that the reps haven't been correct in the information they've provided in the past.

If it is correct though....that's a fairly significant problem from a mfr's defect standpoint.

Agreed, he probably does not understand the significance of 5% and was being anecdotal with his knowledge of the situation. To him 5 sounds small.

I sincerely doubt Subaru/Toyota will ever give out the actual figures but it would be fascinating to know!

[kaitak98]

Got my car back from the paint shop today (had curb rash on airdam that I decided to get fixed). Unfortunately they needed the car and extra day so I missed the Subaru field tech at Subaru of Kennesaw. The service manager said they planned to reflash the ECU to address the CEL/SL.

I'm going to be out of town next week so I'll have to set up an appointment after that. They said the tech covers several states so it may be a few days before they can get him back to look at the car. I'm driving in what I guess is limp mode for now. Not terrible at low RPM but definitely down on power above 4k and it runs just a bit rough.

I did confirm the code is P0019.

Will keep everyone updated.

[Rob_g]

Originally Posted by TurnOne

Update Round 2: Dealership just called to update me on the car. With Toyota rep, they pulled apart and found the source of the low oil pressure was due to faulty timing chain tensioner. This part was removed/reinstalled at the other dealership as part of the VVTI gear replacements and wasn't installed correctly. Oil flows through this part, therfore causing a starvation condition. Bottom end of the engine ruined and will need to be replaced. Meaning, a new engine will be installed. Toyota wants it taken back to the original dealer and new dealer wants it's rental car back. New dealer was much more straight forward with me. Time to call Clayton again to get this Lemon Law process put into motion. Clayton said he would be sending me the paperwork.

So I wonder who eats the repair cost when the dealership caused the engine failure? Maybe the dealership has insurance for times like this?

Rob

[Sargy]

Confirmed code is p0017

Got the car back no cel, no idle dip even though i didnt care about that, report me as FIXED until further notice. Felt like day 1 again <3

[Rob_g]

Originally Posted by eurospeed

It's definitely not your imagination and is an issue Toyota is not acknowledging. Here is a thread that was started last month:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16997

Interesting read... I was driving my FR-S to pick someone up for lunch and the engine had one considerable bog (or throttle glitch) as I was accelerating from first gear again. It's almost the same effect you get when traction control kicks in, except I'm pretty sure it's not the TC. Most of the time I'm on dry pavement and not accelerating hard so there would be no wheel slip.

gah, lights went out at work... I'll finish up later..

Rob

[Stressin]

Originally Posted by sportsguy83

One, I am not talking about CEL, I'm talking about RPM dip while in idle.

Second, I'm not saying it resolves the issue, I'm just stating what happened to my car :happy0180:

That is strange because with mine the idle dipping eventually leads to a CEL so I just presumed they were related.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by hampersnow

After not purchasing an FR-S yesterday from my idiot salesman who refuses to believe there is any real problem, I did get a call back from another "nicer" salesman who took the time to at least research all the documentation I had brought in. He repeated back to me all I've already read online, although he did mention there were only a few cases. i countered with 152 is not a few.
I emailed the Manager of the dealership about the treatment I received and he called me this morning. He says he called Toyota and was told that this is a minor problem that JUST requires a reflash, nothing about replacing the ECU. when mentioned this goes against all I have read online, he tried to throw doubt on everything printed in this forum or even the press.
So I called Toyota with my concerns and I did get an answer from whoever this guy Jose is to the numbers affected and he said "it's only a small number about 5% or less." (is 5% THAT small?)He explained that Toyota was handling it case by case as to whether your ECU were replaced or not, and not whether is was under or over 100 miles. He would not comment on Suburu's handling of the same problem and he said he couldn't speak on whether this issue would become a service release or not, but since he brought up that point I would think they understand this issue is causing a bit of bad publicity. It was obvious i was not the first person to call concerning this.
The more people who call and complain the better. As i was writing this I was again called by the manager of the dealership who supposedly was trying to get me a free extension on the warranty as an incentive to buy it. He could not. His parting words were "well hopefully sometime in the future Toyota can win back your trust".

If you do end up buying the car, buy it from the salesman who followed up...

[silverbullet]

Took my car into the dealer on Tuesday because it was noticeably down on power. Naturally the dealer didn't find anything wrong with it so I drove it home. The next time I took the car out on Wednesday night, the car stalled in a drivethrough, and when I turned it back on I had the CEL/SL. I took the car to the dealer the next morning and after waiting two hours they tell me they reset the ECU and the car is fine (P00019 code naturally). I go to pull it out of the lot and there is about 3" of play in the gas pedal and then the CEL/SL is back on again. I wait for another hour and they come back and tell me that Monday someone from subaru will come out to reflash the ECU. Then he goes on to tell me he hasn't heard of any problems with the BRZ... fortunately the browser on my phone was still opened to this thread Anyway I'll see what happens Monday.

Dont have the vin# because all my paperwork is with the car but its a BRZ LTD, 2200 mi, bought at Manchester, NH on 9/27, being repaired at North Reading Subaru.

[TurnOne]

Originally Posted by Rob_g

So I wonder who eats the repair cost when the dealership caused the engine failure? Maybe the dealership has insurance for times like this?

Rob

My gut feeling is the dealer that made the mistake will have to eat the cost. The screw up dealer had the car towed back to them. 2nd Dealer informed me of that and it was under the direction from Toyota rep. I presume that it was for them to repair their mistake.
The original dealer's owner called me today to apologize for the situation. I talked to him for about 20 minutes telling him my feelings. He will call back on Monday to see how to proceed.

[michaelshull]

Originally Posted by TurnOne

Update Round 2: Dealership just called to update me on the car. With Toyota rep, they pulled apart and found the source of the low oil pressure was due to faulty timing chain tensioner. This part was removed/reinstalled at the other dealership as part of the VVTI gear replacements and wasn't installed correctly. Oil flows through this part, therfore causing a starvation condition. Bottom end of the engine ruined and will need to be replaced. Meaning, a new engine will be installed. Toyota wants it taken back to the original dealer and new dealer wants it's rental car back. New dealer was much more straight forward with me. Time to call Clayton again to get this Lemon Law process put into motion. Clayton said he would be sending me the paperwork.

I do not think Clayton is sending you the Lemon law paperwork. He is sending you the arbitration paperwork. There is a big difference and the lemon laws vary by state to state. By the way, Clayton said he was sending me the same paperwork. That was 6 weeks ago. The mail must be real slow as I still have not received the paperwork. I am currently 4 weeks into making Lemonade...

[dabocx]

Flashed my car back to stock and going into the dealer in the morning. Im already expecting to rage since the guy claims that the chirping is normal and that hes never heard of idle problems.

Im basically going in to be told that everything is normal and for me to get upset since they wont do anything unless theres a CEL.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by TurnOne

Update Round 2: Dealership just called to update me on the car. With Toyota rep, they pulled apart and found the source of the low oil pressure was due to faulty timing chain tensioner. This part was removed/reinstalled at the other dealership as part of the VVTI gear replacements and wasn't installed correctly. Oil flows through this part, therfore causing a starvation condition. Bottom end of the engine ruined and will need to be replaced. Meaning, a new engine will be installed. Toyota wants it taken back to the original dealer and new dealer wants it's rental car back. New dealer was much more straight forward with me. Time to call Clayton again to get this Lemon Law process put into motion. Clayton said he would be sending me the paperwork.

Originally Posted by michaelshull

I do not think Clayton is sending you the Lemon law paperwork. He is sending you the arbitration paperwork. There is a big difference and the lemon laws vary by state to state. By the way, Clayton said he was sending me the same paperwork. That was 6 weeks ago. The mail must be real slow as I still have not received the paperwork. I am currently 4 weeks into making Lemonade...

I have personally noticed that Clayton is better then average with his follow up during the case, his end of case follow through sucks...

NCDS TOYOTA Customer Claim Form

NCDS Rules and Procedures

NCDS TOYOTA Customer Claim Form for California

NCDS Rules and Procedures for California

National Center for Disputes Settlement Auto Disputes Main Page

Please remember Toyota is paying the arbitrator NCDS. Also remember that the decision is NON-BINDING. Make sure anything you send NCDS is sent certified mail or using a trackable carrier (FedEx, UPS). Always get a consultation from a Lemon Law Specialist Lawyer in your state before filling any paper work with NCDS!!!

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

I have personally noticed that Clayton is better then average with his follow up during the case, his end of case follow through sucks...

NCDS TOYOTA Customer Claim Form

NCDS Rules and Procedures

NCDS TOYOTA Customer Claim Form for California

NCDS Rules and Procedures for California

National Center for Disputes Settlement Auto Disputes Main Page

Please remember Toyota is paying the arbitrator NCDS. Also remember that the decision is NON-BINDING. Make sure anything you send NCDS is sent certified mail or using a trackable carrier (FedEx, UPS). Always get a consultation Lemon Law Specialist Lawyer in your state before filling any paper work with NCDS!!!

Good post...just want to add. Send documents via certified mail along WITH a return receipt as well.