Here we go again! MR2 real this time?

[WolfpackS2k]

This topic should be it's own thread IMO. I get the connection, because IF the MR2 ever returns it's almost certainly going to be an EV. But, this should be it's own thread.

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

MT's in the past had purpose, like better Fuel economy than automatics and you were able to extract max power from an engines powerband. It has no benefits nowadays as autos are much better at those now.

I disagree. They still have benefits. Manuals do exactly what you tell them to do. Automatics, no matter how good, do not. It's that simple. Ever hear about manuals overheating? Almost never. Automatics? Quite often. And if your transmission starts acting weird you know it immediately and can troubleshoot it almost as quickly. Automatic starts acting weird? LOL, good luck trying to figure that out. Could be almost (literally) a hundred different issues.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by bcj

Electrified driver seat

The seats in the LYRIQ (and really also ICE Cadillacs) have this already. It buzzes your butte all the time. "Hey, there's something on your left" (left cheek buzz), "Hey, you are on SuperCruise and falling asleep" (full check buzz) or "hey, Supercruise is passing this guy on the left" (another left check buzz).

Should be easy to replace the buzz with something a little more "noticable".

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Does it need to have a mechanical advantage? Perhaps all it needs to be is "its an MT yo" since nowadays damn near everything's more efficient than an MT.

CVT's got fake gearing so it felt more "normal" and it benefits no one because of it (or from what i heard the "fake" gears actually detract performance and fuel efficiency).

MT's in the past had purpose, like better Fuel economy than automatics and you were able to extract max power from an engines powerband. It has no benefits nowadays as autos are much better at those now.

EV's are pretty much "press gas to go" and they're super efficient at it. So basically the purpose of an MT in this era would really just be "its an MT yo!"
And perhaps that's all its needed to be, and in this case the entire MT experience is what Toyoda wants rather than just be a video game.

I would appreciate a manual and analog experience over an auto, but there is a point where a synthetic experience is worse than just having a gearless experience. I wouldn’t want a fake manual like I wouldn’t want fake engine noise, but I would take a drop in performance and range for something authentic and engaging.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Does it need to have a mechanical advantage? Perhaps all it needs to be is "its an MT yo" since nowadays damn near everything's more efficient than an MT.

No, of course it doesn't have to be, but that is the likely reason it would be there for the masses, not the enthusiast. Very few cars are built for the enthusiast.

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

CVT's got fake gearing so it felt more "normal" and it benefits no one because of it (or from what i heard the "fake" gears actually detract performance and fuel efficiency).

And, to my point, it shouldn't have been done for that very reason. People would have gotten used to it, just like they do in EV.

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

EV's are pretty much "press gas to go" and they're super efficient at it. So basically the purpose of an MT in this era would really just be "its an MT yo!"
And perhaps that's all its needed to be, and in this case the entire MT experience is what Toyoda wants rather than just be a video game.

All this could completely be faked in software as an optional mode. No different than adding a "Sport", "Touring" or "Warpspeed on Launch" mode to me. Heck, you could even have it pretend to do perfect double shifts or heel/toe stuff and have a third petal descend from under the dash like a Logitech controller.

The question is, is there really enough of an audience for it?

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Ugm, they do, which is why the MT is all but dead.

Frankly I don't see the point of making the car more mechanically complicated for no specific reason. I love a MT and there are advantages to a MT in ICE, but there are none in an EV. At least none that can't be overcome otherwise.

Gearing on an EV really only helps in increasing the top end speed.

Besides the "because it's an MT, yo" argument, what are the true mechanical advantages?

there simply isn't.

even in the 86, there's really no mechanical advantage to the manual over the automatic. the automatic with the paddles does everything that the manual technically does. there's absolutely no reason for the clutch other than driver engagement.

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by soundman98

there simply isn't.

even in the 86, there's really no mechanical advantage to the manual over the automatic. the automatic with the paddles does everything that the manual technically does. there's absolutely no reason for the clutch other than driver engagement.

Driver engagement and integrating yourself as a part of the machine, becoming one with it. You simply don't get that experience with an A/T. Hell, I even manually shift the automatic vehicles that I drive.

Manual transmissions are also less expensive, less complicated and easier to maintain and repair. Nobody rebuilds automatics anymore, and if you CAN find a shop to do it, it's super expensive. I've never had to rebuild a transmission, but I could probably pull off rebuilding a M/T in my own garage with the right tools.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

I've never had to rebuild a transmission, but I could probably pull off rebuilding a M/T in my own garage with the right tools.

I've had multiple AT on the family vehicle that have outlived the engine at over 250K miles with just normal maintenance. Only ever had to rebuild one and that was because my son accidentally poured engine oil in it and didn't tell anyone (actually just didn't realize he had done it).

[soundman98]

i had an auto partly rebuilt. it was about $2500 about 10 years ago

one of the wave springs was known to delaminate within the trans, and the pieces would grenade the trans pump. had to pull apart, clean the entire thing, replace the wave spring, replace the torque converter(due to it's fluid capacity, to ensure that all the rogue pieces were removed, replace the trans fluid pump..

[Futaba]

While I'm not averse to the idea of an MT EV, changing gears manually on an electric motor doesn't sound like it would have the same sort of feel or connection as doing so with an ICE, and i'd imagine one of the biggest reasons why EV are automatic when they have a transmission system is because they by their very nature have to stretch every last mile out of the battery, and regenerate battery whenever possible, both things that would be impacted pretty hugely by a manual transmission.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Futaba

While I'm not averse to the idea of an MT EV, changing gears manually on an electric motor doesn't sound like it would have the same sort of feel or connection as doing so with an ICE, and i'd imagine one of the biggest reasons why EV are automatic when they have a transmission system is because they by their very nature have to stretch every last mile out of the battery, and regenerate battery whenever possible, both things that would be impacted pretty hugely by a manual transmission.

So would my right foot, but I’m hoping for a accelerator pedal.