Where does the track rabbit hole lead?

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

There's reasons and value for competing even if you're not competing for the win - in all competitive endeavors.

Same as there are reasons not to want to compete if you're not gonna stand a chance at winning. It's a matter of personal preference.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Fair. But missed the point which was a difference of scale.

Racing at the front of a SM pack nationally vs mid-pack is both racing, both competing but at massively different scales of financial and time commitment.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's more racers willing to race knowing they won't be at the front then there are who are only willing to race IF they are at the front.

Because of this statistical reality - If there weren't MORE people willing to go racing who knowingly won't be competing to win - THERE WOULD BE NO RACING, especially at the grassroots level. Imagine the Runoffs with 80 entries or an F1 grid with 6 cars - instantly unsustainable.

There's reasons and value for competing even if you're not competing for the win - in all competitive endeavors.

That's why NASA desperately pushes everyone toward racing... try to keep making money.

Right now, the tt/ta/hpde model is taking over.

Personally, I don't do anything without the intention of doing it well.

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast

Same as there are reasons not to want to compete if you're not gonna stand a chance at winning. It's a matter of personal preference.

You have made my point though and why I had previously brought up the importance of finding a car/class that your budget will allow you to be sustainably competitive in. If you have $15k/yr to spend on W2W racing - a class that allows engine swaps and turbos is NOT for you. A Class like T4 absolutely is.

I used to have the mindset that winning is all that matters when I was young and eventually I grew out of it. Wish I had sooner though because I missed out on a lot of "fun" because I was too busy being hyper-competitive. Youth truly is wasted on the young...

I'm faster than I ever have been now, however I've learned to have fun as well and racing is just that much better. Sort of like achieving nirvana.. until I have to go back to work on Monday.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's why NASA desperately pushes everyone toward racing... try to keep making money.

Right now, the tt/ta/hpde model is taking over.

Personally, I don't do anything without the intention of doing it well.

I'm not a fan of how NASA operates their business model for a variety of reasons. TT/TA is likely only taking over NASA because they don't run a very good racing program, but I don't see it elsewhere. HPDE needs to grow because traditionally HPDE is the feeder for racing/motorsports of all types so if that tide rises all our boats will.

But the bold part stands out. Have done much W2W racing? I think you'd enjoy w2w racing more than HPDE, even if you're not winning. Drafting, setting up a pass, out braking, side by side - it's thrilling even if it's for 5th.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

You have made my point though and why I had previously brought up the importance of finding a car/class that your budget will allow you to be sustainably competitive in. If you have $15k/yr to spend on W2W racing - a class that allows engine swaps and turbos is NOT for you. A Class like T4 absolutely is.

I used to have the mindset that winning is all that matters when I was young and eventually I grew out of it. Wish I had sooner though because I missed out on a lot of "fun" because I was too busy being hyper-competitive. Youth truly is wasted on the young...

I'm faster than I ever have been now, however I've learned to have fun as well and racing is just that much better. Sort of like achieving nirvana.. until I have to go back to work on Monday.



I'm not a fan of how NASA operates their business model for a variety of reasons. TT/TA is likely only taking over NASA because they don't run a very good racing program, but I don't see it elsewhere. HPDE needs to grow because traditionally HPDE is the feeder for racing/motorsports of all types so if that tide rises all our boats will.

But the bold part stands out. Have done much W2W racing? I think you'd enjoy w2w racing more than HPDE, even if you're not winning. Drafting, setting up a pass, out braking, side by side - it's thrilling even if it's for 5th.

Yes and no. I spent many years issuing pro licenses, and doing a lot of "very short sprint races" both with the intention of startling students as well as having to avoid students that have no idea how to pass; more so the exercise is to do as many race starts as possible, as turn 1 is always where the incidents happen.

Unfortunately the classes/series I raced in never had super close fields, so after the first half lap or so, it turns into just an extended lapping session until the checkered.

For the same money, I can go much faster, in a non-w2w scenario, in addition to not having to purchase and park a tow vehicle and trailer, as well as street drive the car(s). Just doesn't make sense for my case.

Now, if I lived in an area where ground was much cheaper, or had the means to simply arrive and drive.... oh wait I'm describing my typical client. One day.


Realistically, I think the only reason I'd go racing is to pursue a personal stretch goal of a plat.