An inconvenient Truth

[82mm 4g63]

Sorry for staying off subject, but...

Originally Posted by Aki

Since the Camaro was never a light car to begin with, the spirit of the car isn't it being lightweight. Yes, I think the new Camaro is too heavy, but it's still in line with the original imo. Neither are exactly Miatas.

You're right, the Camaro was never a light car, but how can you say it's still in line with the original?

1967 Camaro SS-350: 3,141 lbs
2011 Camaro SS-376: 3,864 lbs

The '11 is 23% (723 pounds) heavier than the '67. What about them is still in line with the other? Of course the '67 didn't have all the safety features that the '11 does, otherwise Ralph Nader wouldn't have written that book... but they also didn't use the weight saving materials in the '67 that are commonly used in today's cars.

[zigzagz94]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Sorry for staying off subject, but....

Don't worry that's what we do around here when there's no new info, you'll fit in just fine.... thread jack away :happy0180:

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by 4agze

What I expect for FT86 is to extend what I learned from my AE86 and refine it
make me better as a driver & tuner, pass that to my kids make them better than me.

Can you be a little more specific? How do you think the ft will feel different compared to the ae in the corners?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by cyde01

Can you be a little more specific? How do you think the ft will feel different compared to the ae in the corners?

I'll speculate that it will feel VERY different in the corners. (heavier, bigger motor, independent rear suspension...)

But what I think he means is that it won't be a car that 'interferes' with how you drive it. It will do what you tell it to do, good and bad, but be gentle in how it responds at the limits. This is what I hope.

[OldSkoolToys]

Yeah, cept the 86 isn't gentle with your mistakes at its limits. A wider stance, lower CoG, IRS, longer wheelbase, and stronger chassis will definitely make this car's limits easier to sense and control.

In terms of 'feel', its as much as Dimman said, but honestly its hard to compare without knowing a weight figure. That plays the biggest part imo, given what we know of the car already (everything listed above) when trying to make a conclusion.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Yeah, cept the 86 isn't gentle with your mistakes at its limits. A wider stance, lower CoG, IRS, longer wheelbase, and stronger chassis will definitely make this car's limits easier to sense and control.

In terms of 'feel', its as much as Dimman said, but honestly its hard to compare without knowing a weight figure. That plays the biggest part imo, given what we know of the car already (everything listed above) when trying to make a conclusion.

Another element that plays an absolutely HUGE role in the feel of a car is...surprisingly, the bushings. Engine, transmission, steering, suspension.

Changing out those bushings, which are typically made of very mushy low cost materials in production cars, makes a dramatic difference in the feel. I've driven a 2011 Camaro SS back to back with a 2010 SS that had a full set of bushings from Pedders (and no other mods), and it literally felt like a different car. The steering was massively more communicative and responsive, and it eliminated the wallowy feel of the stock car completely.

The cost, minus installation, was only a few hundred for all of that. I'd love to see comparable high quality parts for a car like this. If it feels good stock, it'd feel INSANE after that...

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Yeah, cept the 86 isn't gentle with your mistakes at its limits. A wider stance, lower CoG, IRS, longer wheelbase, and stronger chassis will definitely make this car's limits easier to sense and control.

hmmm, for some reason i thought the ae86 was easy on your mistakes but i guess i was wrong. so is that why people say it forces you to learn how to drive good, because it punishes your mistakes?

s2ks punish your mistakes at the limit but it's definitely not a good car for beginners to learn on. snap oversteer on that car is no joke. i had a miata owner drive my ap2 in the rain and it said it freaked him out lol.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Maxim

Another element that plays an absolutely HUGE role in the feel of a car is...surprisingly, the bushings. Engine, transmission, steering, suspension.

Changing out those bushings, which are typically made of very mushy low cost materials in production cars, makes a dramatic difference in the feel. I've driven a 2011 Camaro SS back to back with a 2010 SS that had a full set of bushings from Pedders (and no other mods), and it literally felt like a different car. The steering was massively more communicative and responsive, and it eliminated the wallowy feel of the stock car completely.

The cost, minus installation, was only a few hundred for all of that. I'd love to see comparable high quality parts for a car like this. If it feels good stock, it'd feel INSANE after that...

Excellent point of the bushings.

I have access to Delrin and spherical bearings at work. Hmmm...