Next Gen BRZ thoughts

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A 225 WHP car would probably be a great mid point for the two warring groups. It would shave something around a second off the 0 to 60 which would place it well into the mid tier "fast" cars instead of the bottom where it is now. On the other hand it would keep it still manageable for the average Joe that just wants a nice sporty coupe and isn't worried about beating every other car on the road from a stoplight.
Both my Toyota and Subaru dealers have said they lose a pile of sales because Joe or Jane takes it out on a test drive, kicks the rear out by accident and doesn't buy because it is "to powerful". Then you have the internet where every critic is obviously a professional race car driver that has nothing but open roads that they drive every day that complain it needs more power. These guys are just going to mod for even more power no matter what it comes with stock because that is just the way their heads work.
Anybody that is driving these cars on public roads at more than about 6/10s of its abilities is just an asshat anyway.

I believe that would be because of the stock tires. But yeah, I think the small bump from a turbo would appease some. but again, people like ol' broseph will never be satisfied. They will always find a reason to complain because they want their cake and to eat it too. I'm quite satisfied with the output with a full exhaust and tune. It's enough for me.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Broseph

Disagree. Lack of power has been the #1 complaint of the twins since release.
Hear it over and over again. It’s exactly the reason I and others I know don’t own one.
Add a turbo and I’ll add it to my garage, which has been a LONG list of turbocharged AWD and RWD cars.
They’d sell a shit-ton if they do it right.

They already sold 100k of them in the US so it seems to have gone well. You can FI a new one with a few kits and maintain the factory warranty...The car has to be positioned in a certain way because they are running a business, and it doesn't have a sub trim level to bolster profit numbers. DiY if you want FI, they wont bother with a $40k+ twin even more so when a 4 cylinder Supra is sitting next to it.lol

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

They already sold 100k of them in the US so it seems to have gone well. You can FI a new one with a few kits and maintain the factory warranty...The car has to be positioned in a certain way because they are running a business, and it doesn't have a sub trim level to bolster profit numbers. DiY if you want FI, they wont bother with a $40k+ twin even more so when a 4 cylinder Supra is sitting next to it.lol

I fully understand that people want what they want. It is the constant "everybody say's they want...", "it would be easy for them to...", "they would sell more if..." that bugs me. Unless somebody can show me a Toyota/Subaru S&OP stating that they planned to sell far more than they did then the oft repeated "the sales are poor and would be better if..." is just the meaningless babbling of people that feel that they are entitled to getting what they want.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Broseph

Disagree. Lack of power has been the #1 complaint of the twins since release.
Hear it over and over again. It’s exactly the reason I and others I know don’t own one.
Add a turbo and I’ll add it to my garage, which has been a LONG list of turbocharged AWD and RWD cars.
They’d sell a shit-ton if they do it right.

The 86 will hold its own against the WRX through a tight course, even though the WRX has AWD and a turbo. It is going for a niche market of high and free revving NA that is light weight. It isn't trying to be for everyone. They could do a turbo 1.5L, but they went for the NA AE86 style setup.

The 86 competes with the Miata, Civic SI, Golf GTI, WRX, Focus ST, etc. Many of those cars are more practical than the 86, yet it isn't like people are flocking to buying them because they have a turbo.

The Civic SI has more torque and is cheaper, yet SI sales accounted for only a small fraction of sales (roughly 20k/year). At its peak, the 86 variants sold around 27k in 2013. Because it is a specialty car, its interest has waned; it isn't just a faster option in a practical economy car like the Civic SI. The Miata gained more power with the ND2, but that barely helped sales, and in general, the car has more power/lb than the 86, yet sales are similar. There just isn't a huge market for these cars. Add more performance, and subsequently the manufactures need to charge more, so the Golf R, Civic Type R, etc are all selling in lower volumes than their less powerful counterparts. If they were taking a cue from the market then they would reduce power and features and reduce the price, and they could sell in higher volumes.

Honda projects the Si variant will account for 3%-4% of total Civic sedan sales annually and that 20%-25% of all Civic coupes sold will be SIs. In the ’15 model year, 6.3% of the 413,931 Civics assembled in North America were SIs, WardsAuto installation data shows.

https://www.wardsauto.com/test-drive...ble-fun?page=1

If the 86 had a turbo then I would imagine the price would creep into Civic Type R prices, and while sales would probably be similar to slightly less, there would no long be an entry level sports car for Toyota, which is what they want--something that will excite a younger generation that they can afford. If Toyota went the SI route and did a 1.5T then they could at least give a platform for achieving more power easier (because of the turbo), but the 1.5L would limit performance and power potential versus the 2.0 we have now with the addition of FI. The GTI has more torque and hp than our car, but more weight too, so 0-60 isn't improved, so power isn't everything.

[ROFL it's Waffle]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The 86 will hold its own against the WRX through a tight course, even though the WRX has AWD and a turbo.

Couldn't agree more. I liked my modded WRX, but I had just as much (if not more) fun test-driving a stock 86. I may ditch the idea of Gen 1 NSX for an 86 after all. I keep coming back here and keep researching cool stuff for the 86.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ROFL it's Waffle

Couldn't agree more. I liked my modded WRX, but I had just as much (if not more) fun test-driving a stock 86. I may ditch the idea of Gen 1 NSX for an 86 after all. I keep coming back here and keep researching cool stuff for the 86.

[CrowsFeast]

Originally Posted by ROFL it's Waffle

Couldn't agree more. I liked my modded WRX, but I had just as much (if not more) fun test-driving a stock 86. I may ditch the idea of Gen 1 NSX for an 86 after all. I keep coming back here and keep researching cool stuff for the 86.

I would pick the NSX over an 86 any day of the week... Now to go look up NSX prices...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

I would pick the NSX over an 86 any day of the week... Now to go look up NSX prices...

Actually not to bad. And a nice selection to chose from. You better like red though.


https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...Facet=Vehicles for Sale&makeFacet=Acura&modelFacet[]=NSX&start=0

[ROFL it's Waffle]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

I would pick the NSX over an 86 any day of the week... Now to go look up NSX prices...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/forum.php?tabid=11

See, that's the thing... I was obsessing over the NSX so much, and basically came back to my senses and realized just how much of a gamble $55k is on a 25-30 yr old car that was very low production, relative to the 86-family. I still love the car, but to own one... 86 still seems like it's got my vote for the long-term.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ROFL it's Waffle

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/forum.php?tabid=11

See, that's the thing... I was obsessing over the NSX so much, and basically came back to my senses and realized just how much of a gamble $55k is on a 25-30 yr old car that was very low production, relative to the 86-family. I still love the car, but to own one... 86 still seems like it's got my vote for the long-term.

You could buy 3 FRS'.
Have one for DD.
Another for track.
A third for rally, drag, disposing of dead hookers, whatever.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You could buy 3 FRS'.
Have one for DD.
Another for track.
A third for rally, drag, disposing of dead hookers, whatever.

The third one is the obligatory 'I'm swapping an LS in it' car with no engine and 3mm of dust on it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The third one is the obligatory 'I'm swapping an LS in it' car with no engine and 3mm of dust on it.

Behind the garage.

[Lantanafrs2]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The third one is the obligatory 'I'm swapping an LS in it' car with no engine and 3mm of dust on it.

In certain parts of the country it used to be de rigueur to have a primered pos living under a tarp in your yard. Not so much anymore. Give the millennials credit for that

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Broseph

Disagree. Lack of power has been the #1 complaint of the twins since the concept car

Fixed it for you. People were spouting the same crap since the car came to public light.
"I won't buy it if has no turbo."
"I won't buy it if it's under (number) HP."
"I won't buy it if it has a Boxer motor."
It didn't matter what the end product felt like. People were already dismissing the car as "too low power" if it didn't meet their specific number. "It'll be too slow with only 200 / 220 / 250" etc.
The two big comparos at the time were the 370z and S2000, with the Genesis Coupe and Mustang sprinkled in, by the same people. Wanted the car to be something else, so they kept comparing it to cars that weren't like it or in the same price range.

For every professional reviewer saying "it needs power" you can find one saying "I like it just fine the way it is..