Steel Vs Aluminum in the FT86

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

From my short experience in an auto plant working mainly with the body shop (not for car's coming off the line, but for the part's division), I'd say Aluminum hood and trunk lid are the best bets. Doors,...maybe, at the suggested price range at least.

If you have experience with Toyota sport's cars, then you'd LOVE the idea of aluminum doors...door hinges across the toyota globe would rejoice.

I'd take 2 aluminum doors over 1 hood and 1 trunk lid, anyday.

+1 for sure! Carbon hoods are common enough (paint it if you think they're ricey, I don't), and I would prefer my lightweight doors to be made by the factory for safety purposes.

[Giccin]

Originally Posted by Dimman

+1 for sure! Carbon hoods are common enough (paint it if you think they're ricey, I don't), and I would prefer my lightweight doors to be made by the factory for safety purposes.

+1.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Dimman

+1 for sure! Carbon hoods are common enough (paint it if you think they're ricey, I don't), and I would prefer my lightweight doors to be made by the factory for safety purposes.

Oh yeah, the safety thing. I was talking about how the large heavy coupe doors on both my MA70 and AE86 have obliterated the door hinge after 15+ years.

[serialk11r]

@Dimman oh right woops cross section vs density yea.
Too much gaming today.

[bigbcraig]

Haven't read the whole thread, internet sucks in China where I am for the next month and a half. But,

The FT-86 will DEFINITELY be made in steel. Its so much cheaper and more repairable than aluminum.

It's possible that the roof or mayyybbbeeee hood will be aluminum, but the main architecture and fenders will be steel.

And if they aren't, I wouldn't buy it. Even fender-benders can be very pricey, which would drive insurance through the roof.

Its honestly more reasonable for it to be GRP-skinned than aluminum, that at least will bounce / deform when hit instead of tearing and otherwise not being able to be repaired. Even a ding can be impossible to pull out without the metal.

Now, for suspension bits and maybe even something as substantial as a subframe, I could easily imagine aluminum being used. Just not extensively in the body.

[Leeky]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

Its honestly more reasonable for it to be GRP-skinned

I would like it very much if most of the front was GRP

Nice and lightweight, wont rust and stones will just bounce off without denting the bodywork

Gets my vote

[bigbcraig]

I'm actually suprised there aren't more cars that so use GRP for bodywork - for all the reasons you mentioned. If you're intelligent about the exact material you use its cheap and sheet metal is so thin nowadays, it'd probably feel just as stiff as metal. (my 2008 subaru is scary to lean on )

Not to mention repair would be cheaper - for little stuff, it would just bounce back; for some things, it could be patched, and if there is a lot of damage, you'd just swap out panels (they wouldnt be welded into the unibody)

But, of course, that would require making cars with well-engineered, stiff frames as mounting points for everything, instead of having stressed-everything unibodys...

I guess that kind of logic is stuck for the 'archaic' (IMHO best modern application of old school engineering - so much of that car makes sense) Corvette

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

I'm actually suprised there aren't more cars that so use GRP for bodywork - for all the reasons you mentioned. If you're intelligent about the exact material you use its cheap and sheet metal is so thin nowadays, it'd probably feel just as stiff as metal. (my 2008 subaru is scary to lean on )

Not to mention repair would be cheaper - for little stuff, it would just bounce back; for some things, it could be patched, and if there is a lot of damage, you'd just swap out panels (they wouldnt be welded into the unibody)

But, of course, that would require making cars with well-engineered, stiff frames as mounting points for everything, instead of having stressed-everything unibodys...

I guess that kind of logic is stuck for the 'archaic' (IMHO best modern application of old school engineering - so much of that car makes sense) Corvette

Problems with plastics, including fiberglass, I think is how much it expands and contracts with temperature. This means they need bigger (bad-fitting looking) panel gaps.

Another problem is manufacturing cost. Fabric (as opposed to poor performing chop-gun like boats) based fiberglass/other composites is the labour-intensive process of manufacturing.

More steel in the FT86, means more weight that can be taken out later, hopefully.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

More steel in the FT86, means more weight that can be taken out later, hopefully.

you made many valid points but this sentence, while correct, just seems kinda silly

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you made many valid points but this sentence, while correct, just seems kinda silly

To clarify, if they can hit their light weight target with only steel construction, I will be ecstatic.

Then it gets even lighter when aftermarket replacements go on.

Make better sense now?

[ryun84]

^ As in carbon hoods, fenders, roof, and trunk?

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by ryun84

^ As in carbon hoods, fenders, roof, and trunk?

That's in my list of mods to do

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

To clarify, if they can hit their light weight target with only steel construction, I will be ecstatic.

Then it gets even lighter when aftermarket replacements go on.

Make better sense now?

yeah

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Problems with plastics, including fiberglass, I think is how much it expands and contracts with temperature. This means they need bigger (bad-fitting looking) panel gaps.

That is generically correct, but depends a lot on the material and has been overcome in many ways... for example, look how well newer cars' polyurethane bumpers fit to the steel fenders.

Originally Posted by Dimman

problem is manufacturing cost. Fabric (as opposed to poor performing chop-gun like boats) based fiberglass/other composites is the labour-intensive process of manufacturing.

Prepreg is getting quite cheap, lowers manhours, and is pretty highly automatable. Nevertheless, stamped steel is cheaper and what everyone's used to.

Originally Posted by Dimman

steel in the FT86, means more weight that can be taken out later, hopefully.

Yes and no.... I think the body of the FT will be all steel, and that is good as you have stated. Aluminum suspension arms, etc., would make the FT drive better and are something I'd much rather get OEM (from a price and reliability/engineering standpoint) than aftermarket.