(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I'm actually encouraged by reports that it'll only have 217hp. That would kind of imply minimal if any weight gain. We shall see!

It'll be hilarious if all they did was tune the current FA20 with the 86 GRMN tune. (which has roughly the same specs as the rumored output from the rumored N/A FA24)

The internet meltdown would be glorious.

[GardusTech]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

In few days, you’ll hear & see next gen BRZ. Let’s see if all my info is correct without spilling any detail info.

Specs... do not expect highly on it, even w new engine. They added extra ps/TQ & called it good. How much? Can’t say. Below 300? Yes. Below 250? Yes. Below 240? Yes. Below... let’s stop here, cuz it gets sad. Even though they could of pushed it bit more. Why they didn’t? Idk. Maybe global safety? & if you’re wondering, yes TQ dip is still there.

Visually, they made the twin more fancy/luxury. Is it actually luxury? Hm... well, kinda? Is it heavier? Yes, but surprised they kept it within certain weight (but not sure the weight of fully loaded version).

Extra features were added. Some are required, so I get it. Some I’m like “why?”.

They could of fixed/update few things, but they didn’t... which is very shame.

Yes, I know, it very vague, but when you guys see the presentation & specs, you’ll get what I’m saying.

Before they find me & yell at me, I’ll stop here.

This is sad, I hope you're wrong but I don't have high hopes. Yaris GR it is, I think.

[Wally86]

Originally Posted by GardusTech

This is sad, I hope you're wrong but I don't have high hopes. Yaris GR it is, I think.

Why is it sad?

And why did everyone have crazy expectations to begin with? lol.



I'd love to see some numbers from cars under 50k that have done this.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I'm actually encouraged by reports that it'll only have 217hp. That would kind of imply minimal if any weight gain. We shall see!

Obviously an increase in power would require Toyota to reinforce the car with stiffer components, which would add weight, but I doubt it would add more weight if they bored or stroked the motor, or if they did both. The 1JZ vs 2JZ or K20 vs K24 is minimally different in weight.

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

It'll be hilarious if all they did was tune the current FA20 with the 86 GRMN tune. (which has roughly the same specs as the rumored output from the rumored N/A FA24)

The internet meltdown would be glorious.

It is worth pointing out that we still know nothing about what they are planning to use for a motor. Using the FA24 sounds reasonable because that engine is in Subaru's lineup, but then is the car not an 86 anymore because it isn't 86x86? I don't know if the Subaru Ascent's FA24F engine is just a FA20F block that is overbored to be oversquare or if the engine block is a different casting with different dimensions. What I have seen from pictures of the motor is that the shortblock is a different casting.

With that said, we don't know if Subaru will use the FA24F motor with D4S and NA for a FA24D setup, or if they will bore or stroke or bore and stroke the current FA20D motor. In fact, all the talk has been around a FA24D motor going in the next BRZ, but maybe we are all wrong. Maybe the next motor will be a FA22D motor like the S2000 where it is slightly stroked. Maybe we will lose some rpms and gain some torque. I don't know. Anything is possible.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by Wally86

Why is it sad?

And why did everyone have crazy expectations to begin with? lol.



I'd love to see some numbers from cars under 50k that have done this.

Just want to AT LEAST beat a minvan off the line...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE is that too much to ask???

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Obviously an increase in power would require Toyota to reinforce the car with stiffer components, which would add weight, but I doubt it would add more weight if they bored or stroked the motor, or if they did both. The 1JZ vs 2JZ or K20 vs K24 is minimally different in weight.



It is worth pointing out that we still know nothing about what they are planning to use for a motor. Using the FA24 sounds reasonable because that engine is in Subaru's lineup, but then is the car not an 86 anymore because it isn't 86x86? I don't know if the Subaru Ascent's FA24F engine is just a FA20F block that is overbored to be oversquare or if the engine block is a different casting with different dimensions. What I have seen from pictures of the motor is that the shortblock is a different casting.

With that said, we don't know if Subaru will use the FA24F motor with D4S and NA for a FA24D setup, or if they will bore or stroke or bore and stroke the current FA20D motor. In fact, all the talk has been around a FA24D motor going in the next BRZ, but maybe we are all wrong. Maybe the next motor will be a FA22D motor like the S2000 where it is slightly stroked. Maybe we will lose some rpms and gain some torque. I don't know. Anything is possible.

There is not a whole lot of excess material in the FA20 to simply make the cylinders bigger while using the same block.
The bigger bore will need a bigger and heavier block. How much heavier remains to be seen since I can not find a weight for the existing FA24 anyplace. Anybody know?

[Wally86]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Just want to AT LEAST beat a minvan off the line...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE is that too much to ask???

2020 Toyota 86: 6.4s / 14.8s

2020 Dodge Caravan v6: 6.7 / 15.2
2020 Toyota Sienna v6: 6.9 / 15.3
2020 Honda Odyssey v6: 6.5 / 14.5
2020 Kia Sedona v6: 7.6 / 15.8

Stop racing hondas

[HKz]

i hope dodge creates a hellcat pacifica that can do 0-60 under 3 secs so we can all finally get the hell over losing to a minivan..

[Phantobe]

If the rumors are true... at least I won't have to look into parting out my current build.

I really dont understand who the second gen is even for. Everyone who wants an 86 probably has or had one already.

Isn't the point of a next gen to make you want to trade in last/current gen?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Wally86

2020 Toyota 86: 6.4s / 14.8s

2020 Dodge Caravan v6: 6.7 / 15.2
2020 Toyota Sienna v6: 6.9 / 15.3
2020 Honda Odyssey v6: 6.5 / 14.5
2020 Kia Sedona v6: 7.6 / 15.8

Stop racing hondas

Maybe he has an auto, or maybe he doesn't redline and aggressively shift just to beat that minivan off the line.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/suba...ic-first-test/

[dragoontwo]

Originally Posted by HKz

i hope dodge creates a hellcat pacifica that can do 0-60 under 3 secs so we can all finally get the hell over losing to a minivan..

They already have a Grand Cherokee SRT.....

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

If the rumors are true... at least I won't have to look into parting out my current build.

Isn't the point of a next gen to make you want to trade in last/current gen?

Or provide a similar and updated experience for people that haven't yet owned a twin. The next possible offering after this from Toyota/Subaru will likely include some form of electrification. I am guessing that for the most part with electrification, the aggressiveness and invitation to test the laws of physics (aside from electrons) will diminish considerably. So, get it while you can or start saving up for that space travel experience instead, and I hope you can accumulate enough to buy it before you're too old for space travel.

I'm not sure people will reminisce about gas vehicles when electrification becomes far more prevalent. There will no doubt be an overlapping supply of ICE vehicles with replacement electrified vehicles for a long time. Or depending on politics, there could be yet another assault on the atmosphere in the future and mass electrification could stall, who knows.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is not a whole lot of excess material in the FA20 to simply make the cylinders bigger while using the same block.
The bigger bore will need a bigger and heavier block. How much heavier remains to be seen since I can not find a weight for the existing FA24 anyplace. Anybody know?

I am not 100% certain what the FA20 block has. From this post, there seems to be conflicting information where he says that the liners are metal matrix composite, but the quote he posted says the liners are thin cast iron:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...31&postcount=6

If we follow what Toyobaru is telling us then the liners are thin cast iron with an irregular/rough back to them, so that the liners provide better adhesion to the aluminum when they are cast together.

With that said, I don't know if it is possible to create a larger bore with a thicker cast iron layer that when bonded with the aluminum is stronger, yet overall, is slightly thinner.

A 100cc overbore and a 100cc HKS-like stroker would put displacement at 2.2 like the F22C following the F20C, which seems reasonable.

Again, all I am saying is we don't know until we know.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

If the rumors are true... at least I won't have to look into parting out my current build.

I really dont understand who the second gen is even for. Everyone who wants an 86 probably has or had one already.

Isn't the point of a next gen to make you want to trade in last/current gen?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Some of the first gen are seven years old. Some people will be ready for a trade in. This generation is likely to appeal to a broader audience anyways and be a bit more refined.

But, I hope it has a carbon tub, 2600lbs, 250Hp NA and priced under 50K!