Again: No Turbo, No Convertible for US FR-S

[ill86]

Originally Posted by robo_robb

Let's face it: when compared to NA, turbo throttle response is lacking-- I don't care how small the turbo is.

Sheesh.. Some of you guys need to get out more. Just because it has a turbo does not mean response isn't there. This car isn't exactly screaming engine response in NA form. 12.5:1 or not..

With modern turbochargers and effective ways to help spool there is no reason you couldn't have a responsive and more powerful machine.

The FR-S is only lacking more power to take it to new heights.

[sbxjap]

Originally Posted by quik1987

what?

wouldn't they save more money producing only the led version?

less manufacturing process

lol, oops... that was a typo.

But then it seems it's moot now that we know they were made for the G-spec as well. Man... so confusing with all these different trims...

[robo_robb]

Originally Posted by ill86

Sheesh.. Some of you guys need to get out more. Just because it has a turbo does not mean response isn't there. This car isn't exactly screaming engine response in NA form. 12.5:1 or not..

Agree to disagree I suppose.

There is a reason however as to why engineers choose to go NA vs. Turbo, and I think it goes back to my point about response. Look at the Porsche GT3 vs GT2. Why would Porsche even bother with the NA GT3 if they can just make the Turbo GT2? Boils down to engine characteristics.

[ill86]

Originally Posted by robo_robb

Agree to disagree I suppose.

There is a reason however as to why engineers choose to go NA vs. Turbo, and I think it goes back to my point about response. Look at the Porsche GT3 vs GT2. Why would Porsche even bother with the NA GT3 if they can just make the Turbo GT2? Boils down to engine characteristics.

It has to do more with manufacturer cup spec and heat disipation in such environment. They didn't need a turbo for the power output they were interested in. Hence why the gt2 does. I understand your point of view, however.

My point is Turbo doesn't have to have massive lag.

[Xanatos]

I think what we have to look at here in terms of sales is that Scion is selling the FR-S like hot cakes. Doesn't matter if it has FI or not or open top. Why would they need to add more features in the current model line if they don't have to?

In a youtube video: The Toyota chief engineer Tetsuya Tada said that at 200 HP the car's weight balance is perfect. But at 300 HP it wouldn't be. And if you take a look at the tailight in the Aerodynamics video, they finned it. Everything about this car has been balanced out so meticulously that I don't think its meant to be upgraded much if you want to keep the balance.

Sure you can put stickies on for better grip for FI due to the imbalance of weight add a wing for downforce and all that good stuff.
When it comes down to it the enthusiasts that are willing to modify this car won't have all the tools to really balance the car out.
That is left to Toyota to handle the wind tunneling, weight distribution, gearing and fuel economy. Do you think Toyota is willing to put in all that extra work to make a few extra bucks?
They would pretty much have to rework everything they've done up to now except the chassis to keep the balance.

[p911gt3]

Originally Posted by robo_robb

Agree to disagree I suppose.

There is a reason however as to why engineers choose to go NA vs. Turbo, and I think it goes back to my point about response. Look at the Porsche GT3 vs GT2. Why would Porsche even bother with the NA GT3 if they can just make the Turbo GT2? Boils down to engine characteristics.

Not that this matters to everyone here, but the GT3's were developed for racing. The GT2 is a completely different animal, and I don't mean to be ridiculous here, but by your logic, why would they build a gt2 when they already had a gt1 which was doing well already? Regarding the GT3's, they were built to enter a specific production racing class. Being developed for racing they weren't focused on creature comforts at first, which might explain why they originally came very spartan in terms of extras.

But back on topic, since this is an FRS/GT86/BRZ thread, I can guarantee you that Toyota/Fuji Heavy engineers knew that if what they originally produced was successful, there would be many variants built on top. Sure, marketing has sold all of us on the "driving experience" focus, and all of that jazz, to which there may be some truth. Let us remember however that these companies are exactly that, businesses! They aren't going to do something that has a possibility of losing money explicitly unless there is some real opportunity for gain in another area, such as brand image, or knowledge to be gained, or possible profit in the future right?

How about we look at other sports cars as examples, 280zx anyone? There was a new NA sports car, and a couple years later the turbo variant appeared. Celica Supra seems to have gone the same way here. NA sports car + success => more variants later.

[/rant]

I just hope there are long lines to buy cars like this and the GenCoupe and Miata, because the more that sell the more options we will see in this price range in future.

[Asterisked Accolade]

I don't care about the convertible-- i consider them to be worse than the regular version of a vehicle.

And as for the stock turbo, i'm sure the crafty tuners/modders of the US will find a way to buy them from overseas.

[whataboutbob]

If I had a choice, It'd be the TRD SC FTW!

[SVTSHC]

Awaiting my first GT86 front clip.

[robo_robb]

Originally Posted by p911gt3

Not that this matters to everyone here, but the GT3's were developed for racing. The GT2 is a completely different animal, and I don't mean to be ridiculous here, but by your logic, why would they build a gt2 when they already had a gt1 which was doing well already?

Looks like I need to brush up on my Porsche history.

Originally Posted by ill86

It has to do more with manufacturer cup spec and heat disipation in such environment. They didn't need a turbo for the power output they were interested in. Hence why the gt2 does.

Consider this: Back when the GT3 class was created, I'm sure Porsche sat down with its engineers to determine how best to meet the power goals for the new race class. With power restrictions in mind, they could have gotten the same HP from applying a turbo as they could by developing an NA engine. They could have easily gone the turbo route (as they do with the GT2) but they knew they could instead have ideal power delivery and throttle response with an NA engine.

[p911gt3]

I think I just want Toyota to offer an FRS with basic steel wheels, basic brakes, and a 3S-GT setup in it... 560-680 PS at 8500 RPM anyone? Then we could just throw on our own wide body kit, staggered setup, suspension mods of choice and have GTR type power haha. GT2 Look out!

[p911gt3]

Originally Posted by robo_robb

Looks like I need to brush up on my Porsche history.



Consider this: Back when the GT3 class was created, I'm sure Porsche sat down with its engineers to determine how best to meet the power goals for the new race class. With power restrictions in mind, they could have gotten the same HP from applying a turbo as they could by developing an NA engine. They could have easily gone the turbo route (as they do with the GT2) but they knew they could instead have ideal power delivery and throttle response with an NA engine.

I think you bring up a good point though. Obviously the engineers had a goal and found a way to meet it while still keeping true to the 86 name. It would have been less impressive if, to get 200hp we needed the turbo Just like the Miata Heads, they would loathe a turbo version I bet.

[stalon320]

I'm not convinced we won't be getting a Convertible version. I work for Toyota/Scion and I have heard many corp. reps talk about the two versions you describe. I ALWAYS knew the Turbo would not be a factory item but would be sold as kits to help keep the cost down. The convertible is another story. High level exec's WANT this car for the States.. to keep the momentum on Scion's comeback. They are discontinuing the xB and xD within the next two years and will be coming out with new product in their place. I am positive that a Convertible FR-S will be seen as an even more important "Halo" car for the brand. So Don't discount the convertible yet.. Plus.. If Subaru gets one.. Scion wil HAVE to in order to compete. Especially since both companies want to maximize their profit to their investment..

[YukiHachiRoku]

Originally Posted by azian_advanced

i think most people who decide against having a turbo either are track enthusiasts, don't want to pay a few G's for it, or simply never driven a turbo-charged car before. once you go turbo, you don't go back!