Learning manual, stalled so many times

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Spuds

. Works on my machine.

18% is a more alarming number, hence better for clicky-clicky ady-ady

But there's absolutely no way it's 60%. US News had to have gotten that 18% number for the low end of the range from somewhere.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

But there's absolutely no way it's 60%. US News had to have gotten that 18% number for the low end of the range from somewhere.

60% is probably about right if you count everyone alive in the US right now that's ever driven a manual competently. Probably drops a bit when you cut out people who can't drive anymore (or don't drive at all). Then you get a very large number of folks who haven't driven stick in 20+ years, though that includes my parents and they were both perfectly capable of driving my car first chance they got so I'd say it's a skill you don't really forget.

I'd put the actual percentage at 40-50 based on my experience with other people. Give it another 20-30 years and that probably drops dramatically, if we are even allowed to drive at all lol.

The 18 probably comes from a survey where the demographics of respondents were a bit biased. If you can find that survey results and method I'm sure we'd find out.

[new2subaru]

We have 1 MT PU truck at work. I'd say 30-40% of the people there can't drive it and won't even attempt it.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I'd put the actual percentage at 40-50 based on my experience with other people.

My experience has been different. I remember when I was a kid in the '70s that all my mom's friends in her tennis league were extremely impressed with the fact that she could drive her MG Midget, because none of them could drive stick. In high school it became a problem if I ever needed someone to shuttle my Triumph for some reason, because I was the only person who could drive it. I was on a film shoot in the '90s where the crew showed up to prep gear and load it into a 20 ton grip truck, and it fell to me to drive it because I was the only one there who could. When I went back to school ten years ago, the kids in one of my finance classes got into a conversation about cars one day, and not a single one of them could drive one. (Not a single one knew what an MG was, either. Which was sad.)

Everybody in my immediate family can. I came to accept early in life that most people can't. It wouldn't surprise me if the 18% estimate was actually too high.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

My experience has been different. I remember when I was a kid in the '70s that all my mom's friends in her tennis league were extremely impressed with the fact that she could drive her MG Midget, because none of them could drive stick. In high school it became a problem if I ever needed someone to shuttle my Triumph for some reason, because I was the only person who could drive it. I was on a film shoot in the '90s where the crew showed up to prep gear and load it into a 20 ton grip truck, and it fell to me to drive it because I was the only one there who could. When I went back to school ten years ago, the kids in one of my finance classes got into a conversation about cars one day, and not a single one of them could drive one. (Not a single one knew what an MG was, either. Which was sad.)



Everybody in my immediate family can. I came to accept early in life that most people can't. It wouldn't surprise me if the 18% estimate was actually too high.

18% sounds high. In my personal social circle that are heavily polluted with car enthusiast it's not even 40%. If I go off everyone I know it's probably less than 10%.

[krayzie]

3 pages and nobody has recommended the OP some really thin flat sole shoes for an easier time learning how to work the clutch pedal.

These are what I wear these days to drive.



Once you manage to comfortably daily commute with the car next is to learn how to rev match / heel and toe.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by krayzie

3 pages and nobody has recommended the OP some really thin flat sole shoes for an easier time learning how to work the clutch pedal.

That's a good point. It's also one reason this isn't very good advice:

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Keep your heel on the floor when letting the clutch out. You can use the friction with the carpet to modulate the clutch much more precisely than when your foot is hovering.

My footwear range includes sandals, tennis shoes, hard-sole leather dress shoes, hiking boots and steel-toed work boots for when I'm welding. It's not possible to drive the way Yoshoobaroo described with all those shoes. The hiking boots and work boots don't allow the ankle the range of motion to be able to do it. The flip flops can bend and catch on the floor or wall in odd ways if you don't pick up your foot.

It's silly to have to change your shoes just to be able to drive the car because you never learned how to lift your feet properly.

Additionally, if you learn to drive with your left foot improperly set on the floor, there are many cars you won't be able to drive because it's physically impossible to operate the clutch and brake without lifting your entire leg. Practically any manual pickup truck and most cars built before 1980 will be beyond your skills.


Oh no! My leg is so heavy! Can't. Lift. High. Enough.

Even many sports cars are designed with the expectation you will lift your leg to operate the clutch and brake, and even where it may be possible to be lazy and leave your foot on the floor, you risk ruining the clutch because you don't quite get it all the way disengaged without lifting your leg.

[cjd]

IMO leaving your heel on the floor is a training aid, to help isolate the muscles you should be using. Floor friction is wrong if you're actually using that.

I'll mostly pass by the stupidity of driving in flip flops...

[ermax]

I use the heel toe technique. So with your toe on the brake use your heel to press the gas rather aggressively while rolling off the clutch and brake at the same time. When I was learning I did use the ebrake trick a little.

As someone else said, keep your heel planted to the floor and pivot your ankle and slide your foot back rather than lift your entire leg. It’s hard to accurately control your whole leg vs just your ankle. I just taught my 16 year old daughter to drive my car and she had a hell of a time doing it smoothly until I realized she was lifting her whole leg.

[Ultramaroon]

HEEL!

sorry

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by ermax

As someone else said, keep your heel planted to the floor and pivot your ankle and slide your foot back rather than lift your entire leg. It’s hard to accurately control your whole leg vs just your ankle.

It's only hard if your leg muscles are atrophied. Get some exercise.

Originally Posted by cjd

IMO leaving your heel on the floor is a training aid, to help isolate the muscles you should be using.

The muscles you should be using are higher up in your leg. Lazily leaving your foot on the floor doesn't develop them at all.

Originally Posted by cjd

I'll mostly pass by the stupidity of driving in flip flops...

I live in Florida. Bite my ass.

[extrashaky]

I'll add:

You might notice that the brake and clutch pedals in practically any car you drive are designed differently from the gas pedal. Why is the gas pedal longer than the others? Why is the lever mounted lower, sometimes even mounted to the floor instead of the firewall?

The reason is that the gas pedal is designed to be used with your heel on the floor, whereas the brake and clutch are designed to be used with your leg lifted. In many cars the pedals lever in exactly the opposite direction for this reason. In cars where they aren't levered opposite, the gas pedal will pivot so that you can leave your heel on the floor. The brake and clutch are never hinged to pivot in this way.

So it's not just a matter of personal preference. If you leave your heel on the floor when using the brake or clutch, you're doing it wrong, because the pedals are simply not designed to be used that way.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

So it's not just a matter of personal preference. If you leave your heel on the floor when using the brake or clutch, you're doing it wrong, because the pedals are simply not designed to be used that way.

Let's see what the pedals look like on a racecar



Hmm look at that. Maybe the reason road cars have then hinged off the firewall is because it's cheaper?

[cjd]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

The muscles you should be using are higher up in your leg. Lazily leaving your foot on the floor doesn't develop them at all.

Not the ones sensitive enough to handle smooth clutching... There are definitely muscles in your upper leg and even up into your back you're going to be using, but the finesse comes from small muscle groups that control your ankle.