Is 12lb total difference in weight going to affect a lot?

[mike_ekim1024]

Originally Posted by churchx

I would argue on bit that wide wheels absolutely look better. My take on this would be that most won't care :P. How often do you lean to look under other cars to see their wheel width? How often you check tire width for cars in front of you or for cars you see in rear view mirror? Do you check tire width for other cars you see parked?
I just don't see all the big deal and where all that supposed coolness in wide wheels/tires comes from. To me it more probably is just feeding envy to exotics cars one cannot afford, as in most cases only owner knows/cares how wide his tires are and all that coolness is in his head only. Some exterior visual mods on body / aero elements / outside of wheel might be easily noticed/seen. But width of tire?! If someone actively checks up width of tires for all cars one sees all the time .. i'd say such guy may have some psychological issues.
Is all this described above really worth compromising performance / handling and spend more?

I’ve seen 4 door sedans with less wheel gap and be less sunken in. The stock rear wheels don’t fit the sleekness of the rest of the car. Luckily, they’re easy to change

[churchx]

mike_ekim1024: 1) how wheel/tire width has anything to do with that? 2) i don't care about flushness or wheel gap either, choosing wheels only by brakes clearance/weight/strength/cost. Still, i may understand people that try to change your mentioned visual bits more then ones that go for widest wheels/tires they can fit. Simply because that can be easier seen/noticed then later.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by rvoll

You miss the point completely. A 500 hp NA doesn't need a turbo to race but it does need wider wheels to handle that hp. A 200 hp NA without a turbo doesn't need extra wide wheels/tires to handle the load. So the point you were trying to make doesn't make any sense....

This thread is about wheels and tires. The only reason turbo came in the discussion is that it is just about the only way to significantly increase the hp of a twin. Once you raise that hp significantly, you change the balance of the car. You need tires that can handle that load -- especially on the driving wheels.

You were trying to make the argument that heavier wheels are better on a COG basis and I showed you the math which said that was ludicrous. A heavier car takes more hp to accelerate and is more difficult to stop -- even if that weight is in the wheels/unsprung weight. You keep on trying to make the argument that wider is better -- and for our cars without a significant increase in hp, it just isn't. Basically, you go with the most narrow width that still holds the car on turns at high speeds to reduce lap times. On our car, that has proven to be about 225 with good, sticky, tires. That keeps weight down and improves handling.

Again, if you like wide wheels/tires, go for it because it is your car. Just don't try to justify it in terms of performance. There is nothing wrong with making your car look good in your eyes so you can get that exotic sports car feeling. We all do things to make us feel better -- even me -- and that is just fine.

i missed the point completely because its a random point that you alone are treating as a fact. you brought up 500 hp brzs and then told me how thinking like that was wrong.

i was just messing with you with the cog thing. its silly, i agree.

im not talking about what i prefer or have on my car. spend time on a track and you will see that the 8 or maybe 9 is faster than a 7 inch rim. for a given tire width, they will feel better as well imo.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

However, look no further than the BRZ race cars if you think anything even close to a stock width tire is optimized for handling.

BRZ RA Racing comes with 205/55 R16 tires

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

BRZ RA Racing comes with 205/55 R16 tires

Yeah and steel wheels... because it’s supposed to be a stripper model. They offer it like that under the assumption that the customer will swap his or her own wheel and tire combo for racing.

Cherry picking facts without context doesn’t help anyone.

[Yardjass]

The RA also isn't a race car so there's that. A race inspired street car or a starting point maybe. That's about it.

Originally Posted by rvoll

BRZ race cars are mostly turboed. Once you change the balance, as I've said before, you argue for wider tires. However, this also argues for a staggered fitment as exists on virtually all higher powered sports cars. From what I've seen on the "wider wheels/tires" threads, most want wider on na cars -- and from a performance perspective, that just doesn't make much sense. Does it look better? Absolutely, you'll get no argument here on that. But once you put better, non-Primacy HP tires like the PS4S on your car, you have more stick than most of us can handle -- and that's at a standard width. This is especially true for street cars you aren't going to race.

Agreed. There's a lot of argument going on in here. Fact is wider within reason is better if you have the accompanying power to support it. It may or may not be better for our cars depending on power output and what the owner values.

[nikitopo]

It looks that you are confusing the RA car with the RA racing car. The first was the stripped model, the second not. The steel wheels were provided because all the teams were changing to new stock size wheels, so providing a factory alloy wheel would be like throwing money out of the window. I would say the RA racing car was the best possible as a dual purpose car (i.e. race focused & street capable).

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It looks that you are confusing the RA car with the RA racing car. The first was the stripped model, the second not. The steel wheels were provided because all the teams were changing to new stock size wheels, so providing a factory alloy wheel would be like throwing money out of the window. I would say the RA racing car was the best possible as a dual purpose car (i.e. race focused & street capable).

Can you provide proof of said RA racing car? A search yielded only the aforementioned RA stripper model.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

Can you provide proof of said RA racing car? A search yielded only the aforementioned RA stripper model.

Do a better search. There are many articles about it. It isn't available anymore, but this doesn't mean that it never existed. It was available with an oil cooler, brake ducts, roll cage and door bars, race harness, coilovers and clutch type lsd as option and so on.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Do a better search. There are many articles about it. It isn't available anymore, but this doesn't mean that it never existed. It was available with an oil cooler, brake ducts, roll cage and door bars, race harness, coilovers and clutch type lsd as option and so on.

Right. "THE" RA, there was only one, and yes it had steel wheels. You may be confused there was only one RA sold in conjunction with the GT86 RC. The full name was BRZ RA Racing, and many journalists labeled it just the BRZ RA.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by RayRay88

Right. "THE" RA, there was only one, and yes it had steel wheels. You may be confused there was only one RA sold in conjunction with the GT86 RC. The full name was BRZ RA Racing, and many journalists labeled it just the BRZ RA.

Why new members don't know to LISTEN?


There was the plain BRZ RA and the BRZ RA Racing. The first didn't have a roll cage and it was a stripped down model. It even had an open rear differential! The other had all the things I mentioned and it was ready for racing. I explained the reason why the wheels were steel. The users changed them to alloy ones of same size because of the Gazoo 86/BRZ regulations.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Why new members don't know to LISTEN?


There was the plain BRZ RA and the BRZ RA Racing. The first didn't have a roll cage and it was a stripped down model. It even had an open rear differential! The other had all the things I mentioned and it was ready for racing. I explained the reason why the wheels were steel. The users changed them to alloy ones of same size because of the Gazoo 86/BRZ regulations.

Ok even if there are two RA’s then my point still stands. The 16’s provided with the RA racing are provided as throw aways and are not indicative of optimized handling.

[Yardjass]

The fact that this argument is even going on shows how little credibility there is in citing that car. If we were talking about something like Super GT, FIA GT, or ALMS, everyone would be exactly on the same page as far was what car was being talked about. By the way, look what kind of wheels/tires those cars run.


Again, show me a power circuit where wider wheels result in slower laps and I'll show you one with lots of corners where they are faster. There is not a one size fits all approach to this. I am chuckling though because once again, I find myself on a "slow car fast" forum listening to people willing to sacrifice cornering ability in order to make their slow car a little less slow.

[RayRay88]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

The fact that this argument is even going on shows how little credibility there is in citing that car. If we were talking about something like Super GT, FIA GT, or ALMS, everyone would be exactly on the same page as far was what car was being talked about. By the way, look what kind of wheels/tires those cars run.


Again, show me a power circuit where wider wheels result in slower laps and I'll show you one with lots of corners where they are faster. There is not a one size fits all approach to this. I am chuckling though because once again, I find myself on a "slow car fast" forum listening to people willing to sacrifice cornering ability in order to make their slow car a little less slow.

This. No one is arguing that wider wheels will result in more drag and that will hurt lap times, but to think that 16” wheels are ideal for the car is asinine. These people also forget that rapid sidewall flex causes immense amounts of heat. Not to mention roll over. It’s just a mess. Sure if I was running on go cart tracks or one with tons of high speed straights I wouldn’t mind as much. But in the real world most technical circuits, the 16’s and narrow tires will be a joke. Thermal management of tires is key and finding the balance between width,drag and heat shedding capacity needs to be seriously considered in any sort of circuit racing.