Coilover options for DD

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

I got the Meisterrs and have no complaints. Relatively inexpensive, decent quality, OEM like ride characteristics and improved handling

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by churchx

If you'll never take it to the track, and thinking just maybe sometimes in future take it tor not take it to autox i guess you'll just dial in "soft-enough" setting for comfortable DD and leave it at that. So do you really need adjustability? Multi-way at that?

Originally Posted by churchx

i'm still on stock struts/coils and stock power and yet having loads of fun and still considering if worth to get or not some coilover upgrades for next season or just simply have even more trackdays visited

Even if someone will never use the coilover's adjustability, I believe it is still a better option comparing to non-adjustables. Issue is that manufacturers leave some of the advanced features for their adjustable products. For example, Bilstein B6/B8 are twin-tube designs while Bilstein B16 is a mono-tube design.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Even if someone will never use the coilover's adjustability, I believe it is still a better option comparing to non-adjustables. Issue is that manufacturers leave some of the advanced features for their adjustable products. For example, Bilstein B6/B8 are twin-tube designs while Bilstein B16 is a mono-tube design.

Can you explain why twin tube is inferior to mono tube?

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Cole

Can you explain why twin tube is inferior to mono tube?

One advantage is that you can store a bigger capacity of oil. It'll take more time to over-heat and your suspension will not feel dead after some time. It is not only how fast you can go, but also for how long ...

[Cole]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

One advantage is that you can store a bigger capacity of oil. It'll take more time to over-heat and your suspension will not feel dead after some time. It is not only how fast you can go, but also for how long ...

So just one reason then.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Even if someone will never use the coilover's adjustability, I believe it is still a better option comparing to non-adjustables. Issue is that manufacturers leave some of the advanced features for their adjustable products. For example, Bilstein B6/B8 are twin-tube designs while Bilstein B16 is a mono-tube design.

This is not true, B6 and B8 are monotube.

- Andrew

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Issue is that manufacturers leave some of the advanced features for their adjustable products.

In the case of Bilstein, the B14 (non-adjustable) coilover and the B16 (adjustable) coilover are almost identical with the exception of the shaft, which is where the adjustment comes from, and the shim stack. So it's only better due to the fact that it's adjustable.

Adjustablity is nice, but I think people overestimate how often they'll use that adjustment. Good valving, even on the track, is not harsh. Yes, a very track focused coilover is not ideal on the street, but it's not far off.

A lot of the lower end cheap coilovers are adjustable because they use the same damper cartridge for multiple vehicles. They don't dial in the valving beyond getting it in the range and then letting the user find the spot that "works" with the adjuster. Same reason they are often dual height adjustable...one damper cartridge for multiple cars and then different lower/upper mounts.

With a lot of adjustable coilovers, the adjustment isn't very good. It's often non-linear from click to click, with minimal difference between click 4 and 5 but a huge difference from 5 to 6. Or they have a huge effect on high piston speed damping with only a mild effect on low speed (which is where the majority of the effect on handling happens). The stiffest settings on a lot of lower end coilovers are trash. Some might be faster with them turned up, but that's because the soft/medium settings are waaay too soft in the low piston speed range. So in essence, at soft they can ride okay, but handle like garbage...while at stiff, they can handle okay (on a smooth surface) but ride like garbage. This doesn't mean it's a good adjustable shock, it means it's a shock that isn't dialed in right.

A good shock can ride and handle really well at the same time. You don't necessarily need adjustability to get that, but you do need a shock that's been dialed in well with sufficient low speed and not excessive high speed piston damping.

Adjustability is excellent for track day and autocrossers who need to dial in handling with a little more fine tuning (and for fine tuning you need a shock that is consistent in it's adjustment). It's also good if you plan on changing spring rates slightly, or if you encounter rain or different track surfaces. It can be nice to have for a street driven car to fine tune ride and make the car a little less aggressive than it would be at the track.

- Andrew

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

This is not true, B6 and B8 are monotube.

- Andrew

I thought that the fronts are inverted mono-tube and the rears are twin-tube? Maybe I am wrong ...

[strat61caster]

Lots of people claim autox setup is different without much autox experience. I concur with church and racecomp, a fast setup shouldn't be teeth rattling because that means the tires aren't gripping well.

Stiffening up the dampers is a weak replacement for not having enough spring or a psychological confidence booster, I doubt it's actually faster that way.

Edit: and yes, b6/8 are most definitely monotube, Google it.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I thought that the fronts are inverted mono-tube and the rears are twin-tube? Maybe I am wrong ...

Front and rear are monotube.

Bilstein does make a B4 twintube, but not for this platform.

- Andrew

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Adjustability is excellent for track day and autocrossers who need to dial in handling with a little more fine tuning (and for fine tuning you need a shock that is consistent in it's adjustment). It's also good if you plan on changing spring rates slightly, or if you encounter rain or different track surfaces. It can be nice to have for a street driven car to fine tune ride and make the car a little less aggressive than it would be at the track.

Personally, I prefer adjustability even on a DD (sports) car because you have different types of roads, conditions (dry, rain, snow) and different type of tires (often overlooked). Usually, I'll adjust between winter and spring season. It will never be perfect for the condition, but for my tastes better than no adjustability.

Yes cheap coilovers might be in many cases worse, but let's not compare apples with oranges. Adjustability in a good suspension makes a difference.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Personally, I prefer adjustability even on a DD (sports) car because you have different types of roads, conditions (dry, rain, snow) and different type of tires (often overlooked). Usually, I'll adjust between winter and spring season. It will never be perfect for the condition, but for my tastes better than no adjustability.

Yes cheap coilovers might be in many cases worse, but let's not compare apples with oranges. Adjustability in a good suspension makes a difference.

True that even on a DD adjustability can be useful. Changing settings when moving to winter tires for example is a good example. I started running my old Konis a little softer when I moved downtown too (crap city roads vs smooth-ish suburban roads).

- Andrew

[churchx]

nikitopo: but with preset budget of purchase for customer or preset budget/profit margin for manufacturer one has to compare apples to oranges. Just like with hifi HW, where i'd prefer higher quality stereo over multichannel audio setup, i'd prefer higher quality/dampening coilovers that cost as much as ones, where part of budget was spent for "adding knobs", and for main function - measly leftovers. At least for lowend, where that budget is scarce to begin with. Everyone wants to get best available for the money, right? And where is petition for penskes at flex Z price to sign under?

[Wise]

If you don't mind importing from Australia, Shockworks and MCA both make great coilovers that provide a good balance for road and track applications.