Spec Twin?

[G_Ride]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Yeah, I'm also in the anti-header/tune for spec camp.

I'm wary of the Stage 3 spec tune, but will reserve judgement until a determination is made and more details are released. I highly doubt it will be OFT, since they're not a TireRack supplier. My best guess is that they are talking/working with Cobb to see about developing a flash tune for the platform, since Cobb is both a well-known entity within the Subaru community and a supplier for TR.

If they can slightly reduce dip and, more importantly IMO, do something with the rev limiter/fuel cut, it might actually be pretty nice on an otherwise "stock" engine.

It probably wouldn't be Cobb. I've talked to them in the past, and unless they've changed their minds since then, Cobb will not make an AP for N/A cars anymore/ They've tried it on the past (06-07 Impreza 2.5i). It was discontinued pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by blkwrxwag

But I want the sound of a UEL header, dammit!!

I hear STX allows headers. STX is always an option.

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I've already written my letter against that.

Same. The idea is nice, but then you get to the details and it just wont work. I also wrote that if they want to mess with the ECU, just do a soft limiter.

Wondering when they will publish rules. They should have rolled out official rules when they announced the class, instead of the vague statements at Nats. Seems like they had a 30 minute conference call about it and just rolled it out after that.

[Ribface]

+1 on no ecu/header

Does certain years have an advantage when it comes to the stock ecu tune?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Ribface

+1 on no ecu/header

Does certain years have an advantage when it comes to the stock ecu tune?

Pre-April/March 2013 build dates had the tune that supposedly melted direct injection seals, dealership is supposed to flash a new tune but won't do it unless you exhibit the symptoms in the TSB's (in my experience, ymmv), will take awhile to dig up but they're posted on the forum here.

Edit: you want to see B01C/B01D on the rom/tune id, can be checked with OFT and maybe an OBD2 reader, not sure. I'm 99% sure my 12/12 build car has the 'bad' tune, but it made it to 60k miles without major issue. In the end it only seemed to affect a minority of cars driven hard, but it's worth checking.

TSB's linked here
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=542
Subaru
11-136-14
Toyota
S-SB-0040-13

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Pre-April/March 2013 build dates had the tune that supposedly melted direct injection seals, dealership is supposed to flash a new tune but won't do it unless you exhibit the symptoms in the TSB's, will take awhile to dig up but they're posted on the forum here.

Edit: you want to see B01C/B01D on the rom/tune id, can be checked with OFT and maybe an OBD2 reader, not sure. I'm 99% sure my 12/12 build car has the 'bad' tune, but it made it to 60k miles without major issue. In the end it only seemed to affect a minority of cars driven hard, but it's worth checking.

TSB's linked here
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=542
Subaru
11-136-14
Toyota
S-SB-0040-13

Bought mine used, June 2013 build date. Hit 80k miles today with essentially no issues to speak of.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Bought mine used, June 2013 build date. Hit 80k miles today with essentially no issues to speak of.

Well yeah, you've got the revised tune...

[DaWorstPlaya]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I've expressed my hate in a header and tune for a Spec class, as you leave it open to vulnerability and removed the one thing you were trying to accomplish.

I've already written my letter against that.

Are you competing in SSC? If you are not, why not let the people that are going to run decide what would be best for the class. Making a case to inform people is one thing but why bother trying to shape the class when you have no dog in the fight.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Well yeah, you've got the revised tune...

I know. I was celebrating that fact. lol

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya

Are you competing in SSC? If you are not, why not let the people that are going to run decide what would be best for the class. Making a case to inform people is one thing but why bother trying to shape the class when you have no dog in the fight.

No, I'm not. I'm staying in STX...I don't know why I'd build my car within the year, finish 3rd and move on...

Do you have to participate within classes now to have an opinion? I guess I missed that memo in the rulebook for the SCCA some time.

What's best of the class could very well impact STX, which I may add has been one of the healthiest classes year over year not only at Nationals, but Tours and Pros throughout the US.

So, if you really want my opinion now here it is.

Personally, SCCA (cough Howard) should have just made another "street" class and re-classed everyone into that specific class and moved away with this SSC stuff. It's going to hurt CS/DS numbers, and it's going to hurt STX numbers.

Why make changes and effect some classes that have been extremely healthy is BEYOND me. Especially after the STAC has made some pretty big re-org changes with STH and killing off STF to make sure Twins have a place to play within ST. Now we get to combat one of Howard's special ideas he likes to think about.

In any class, you have people that leave...they sell cars, move on to another prep level...etc. With that, you have people that fill in the class and net out those who left. Typically, in the past numbers have shown that these come from lower prep levels.

So, instead of STX getting drivers funded from CS/DS, they will go into SSC. It's the next logical step in prep, cost is pretty low, and similar to CS/DS in terms to knobs to turn, alignment...etc. Cost for entry is low (although I'd argue same could be said with STX but I digress).

So, now instead of STX receiving those drivers, they will be filtered into SSC. We will decrease numbers next year and I GUARANTEE you that its because of this SSC wish Howard has going on.

So yea, I'm pretty much entailed to my opinion and I have a good reason for it.

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

So, instead of STX getting drivers funded from CS/DS, they will go into SSC. It's the next logical step in prep, cost is pretty low, and similar to CS/DS in terms to knobs to turn, alignment...etc. Cost for entry is low (although I'd argue same could be said with STX but I digress).

So, now instead of STX receiving those drivers, they will be filtered into SSC. We will decrease numbers next year and I GUARANTEE you that its because of this SSC wish Howard has going on.

This is definitely true for the first couple of years that SSC exists. But I do see those who get bored with SSC, or find themselves wanting to tweak more, moving up to STX. The number that do this will more than likely be lower count than before.

Maybe it's a good filter for those who have genuine interest in STX, vs those who are there because it allows some modifications they wanted. They're probably not the competition you're looking for anyway.

I have to ask - if SSC is huge for more than a year, and CS/DS/STX and other street classes suffer, what does that say? Membership votes with their attendance, right?

[Twinz]

I think there were three of us in CS this year so the CS "hurt" happened when everyone jumped to DS.

From what I saw during the season, mixing the AWD cars and the twins in DS made the course more of a factor than it should be.

I agree that STX should be preserved and I think SSC's lack of power and more basic suspension setup should do that.

DS will probably take a hit because SSC makes more sense from a competitive and financial standpoint. (When starting with a showroom stock car)

STX will remain the place where people are allowed to "fix" whatever they feel the car lacks short of FI.

*edit* just noticed my phone's auto correct changed some abbreviations...fixed

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by tony_r

This is definitely true for the first couple of years that SSC exists. But I do see those who get bored with SSC, or find themselves wanting to tweak more, moving up to STX. The number that do this will more than likely be lower count than before.

Maybe it's a good filter for those who have genuine interest in STX, vs those who are there because it allows some modifications they wanted. They're probably not the competition you're looking for anyway.

I have to ask - if SSC is huge for more than a year, and CS/DS/STX and other street classes suffer, what does that say? Membership votes with their attendance, right?

STX wasn't hurting prior to SSC, so why would one even attempt to add something within these two prep levels just kind of confuses me.

Yes, I have a lot of financials involved on this if STX suddenly dies. Sure, perhaps the membership voted, but IMO it was influenced by this change that was unnecessary.

If membership wanted to vote, it'd vote by reducing STX cars. Then IMO it warrants a change.

However, at this point you're diluting the class and choking 2 others until they beg for mercy

[chucky12012]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

STX wasn't hurting prior to SSC, so why would one even attempt to add something within these two prep levels just kind of confuses me.

Yes, I have a lot of financials involved on this if STX suddenly dies. Sure, perhaps the membership voted, but IMO it was influenced by this change that was unnecessary.

If membership wanted to vote, it'd vote by reducing STX cars. Then IMO it warrants a change.

However, at this point you're diluting the class and choking 2 others until they beg for mercy

I don't think SSC will kill STX by any means, maybe a small dent, but I can understand the frustration. DS will suffer because of SSC, but DS is not really a great place to play in a twin honestly (I would have likely left regardless). Now that the SAC knows of the situation, hopefully they can just consolidate all twins to DS and allow the older non-TRD versions get buried since they can go to SSC. I love the idea of a spec class personally. I don't love that there wasn't internal coordination prior to its announcement.

[blkwrxwag]

I think a lot of people are unhappy with twins in CS/DS anyway at this point. Would they all flock to STX, or try something different? Personally, I would have stuck it out and waited until I could afford a ND Miata.

I see a lot of people switching from other classes, or indeed coming back to the sport, to run SSC. I also think that DS may become something more that it is now, with addition of cars like the CTR or TRD FRS. Giving the twins an alternative, opens up DS for the SAC.

So yes Kyle, I see your point, but I'm not sure it will impact STX as much as you think.