Subaru Testing a BRZ with STI Badging and a Big Wing

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

IDK. A $40k factory BRZ just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Not without a completely different engine, anyway.

I would have spent $40k on a high hp BRZ. It's almost comical to me that they don't have two versions of this car.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

The ~*FANCIEST*~ oil, the fanciest German filter, a magnetic drain plug, filter housing removal tool, drain pan, and some hand tool attachments. The oil was pretty pricey and I bought more quarts than I needed:

11 qts Total Quartz 9000: $110
Filter + gasket: $30
Drain plug: $30
Drain container: $16
Hex bit for plug removal: $4
Oil filter housing tool: $6
=========
Total: $196

Obviously most of these are one-time expenses and I could get a cheaper oil next time. I could probably also save some money buying stuff off the internet instead of from my local shop, but I like the guys at my local shop

You buy a new drain plug every time?!? What in the world? And you can't beat MobilOne @ Walmart. $24/5 quart jug. MobilOne is good enough for the factory, so definitely good enough for me.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Sort of? I mean, the BRZ is an exceptionally cheap car to maintain-- I'll grant you that. Even buying bits from the dealer, my last oil change cost less than $50. The same thing on my 911 cost me $200 (although I bought some tools and stuff which will be one-time purchases in addition to the consumables).

But beyond consumables costing a bit more, there's really not a huge difference between operating the Porsche and the Subaru. Neither one has been tearing through things like brakes or tyres. The Porsche actually costs less to insure than the BRZ. Unless you explode something on the car, the 911 doesn't cost that much more. And it sounds like more of these super-tuned econoboxes are prone to exploding. I'll say this for the 911: you really don't need to worry about driving it hard. Even the BRZ I don't drive flat out in the mountains anymore because it really needs an oil cooler to keep up. Cheaper cars just aren't designed to actually get driven quickly for more than a few minutes at a time, and the required retrofits aren't free either.

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

You buy a new drain plug every time?!? What in the world? And you can't beat MobilOne @ Walmart. $24/5 quart jug. MobilOne is good enough for the factory, so definitely good enough for me.

Even I know the answer to that one!

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I was out on a long-ass drive day with some friends. We took hwy 33 over the mountains from Ojai, Hudson Ranch Rd out to Frazier Park, and then Lockwood Valley Rd back to hwy 33, over the hill again back to Ojai. By the time we were headed back over the mountains it was mid-afternoon and it had gotten hot. I was trying to keep up with a 991 GT3 and a 993 (and by keep up, I mean make it back to Ojai on the same day :P). I was all warmed up after a half-day of driving and I know highway 33 like the back of my hand, so I was going pretty much as fast as the car could go on the uphill sections (easily done on an incline at high DA where you've got minimal engine performance to begin with)-- like I said, pretty much WOT between 5k and redline the entire way up the mountain except for lifts to settle the front end coming into the corners. Top of second --> first bit of third --> repeat.

Unfortunately I don't think I was the only thing that was warmed up :P

I didn't notice any difference in noise. The car seemed to run completely normally (except for the engine feeling weak-- but as I said, it was probably the altitude and temperature: there was no sudden / noticeable change in engine performance associated with the CEL).

It did shake my confidence in the car a bit. Part of the reason I bought my 997 was so that I could have something I could drive flat out without turning it into an aftermarket science project. I'll do suspension mods all day long, but I didn't want to mess with the engine on the BRZ back in '15 when I still had a lot of warranty left. These days I'm inclined to stick a supercharger, oil cooler, and some means of monitoring T's and P's on the car. I heard the Jackson Racing supercharger kit has a bit of boost push when you lift off the throttle though, which I'm not wild about. I'm also of two minds as to whether adding power to the car is a good idea at all: it's slow on hills and doesn't have the torque to do big filthy powerslides all the time, but being able to drive it flat-footed all over the place has its charms.

I'm guessing it had something to do with gas. Drive on

I drove the car 1200 in one day before while reving it & nothing ever happened to me for 50000 mile before i get a tune and stuff.

I would say do the drive again when you have the time but pay attention to the possible variable this time.

[DSOmegaX]

If you're in SoCal, the tS and Type RA are at the OC auto show in Anaheim

[NeverInTime]

Originally Posted by DSOmegaX

If you're in SoCal, the tS and Type RA are at the OC auto show in Anaheim

Cool I'm going to that show today, so I'll check them out.

[NeverInTime]

The tS wing looks better in real life, though it will probably still be a bit too ricer for some people. The interior is mostly unchanged apart from the usual red STI start button, STI shifter knob (which just has a red insert on the top of the shifter), and red seat bolsters and stitching. The doors were locked, so I couldn't take any useful pictures of the interior. In the third picture you can barely make out the pink STI springs.

The WRX STI RA on display was marked as a prototype, and I hope they do a lot more work to the car as it really didn't look that great with the red "lipstick" decoration around the front and rear being cheap stickers that looked like they were just slapped on. The carbon fiber wings on both the tS and the RA are definitely the most visually appealing parts of the cars, and felt really well-built. I didn't take the time to measure the wings and compare details, but the wings on both cars looked like they were exactly the same.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

... snip ...
Exactly what I mean when people start talking about hypothetical $40k performance variants of the BRZ-- the BRZ makes a ton of sense at its current price point (I don't even mind things like it lacking an oil cooler at that price, because hey-- it's a budget sportscar). But if you're gonna spend $40k you suddenly have a lot more options, and I'm not sure the BRZ is the best one anymore. You could buy a nice 997 or Cayman and have a bunch of cash leftover for running costs at $40k. Or you could spend some time searching and buy the right used 86 with basically anything you could want (look at all the 350hp turbo builds going for low 30's) for that amount if you're dead-set on an 86.

IDK. A $40k factory BRZ just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Not without a completely different engine, anyway.

So, in 2005 when I stretched for a 2005 STi with Subaru VIP at 31k, it barely made sense to me. However, since I had proven with a 2003 WRX that I was good enough at autoXing and I watched trhoppe blow up about 10 5speed transmissions, I decided a 6 speed STi transmission was a good idea. Also, it was a special car at the time (second year). Subaru starting the GTP made it possible, gave me the idea, and I went for it.

At a Subaru Challenge, I saw the ESX STi, and it was listed at $40k with just an appearance kit and nothing else. It made no sense to me. At that time and at that price, I could do all that they had done for 1/10th the price. The version with more power was around 45k. At that time, that was brand new c5z06 money.

However, 10+ years later, if you have one of those numbered ESX STis, they are still worth 30k. I think the same could be stated for the "A-line" or "Limited" STis of the GD generation. Those still go for 30K+, and it was a 30K car new.

The value of a low volume variant does hold value, to a degree, compared to the regular variants cars that will drop to nothing. Granted, the BRZ tS car is not really that special, and harkens back to the ESX STi or more mundane STI Limited variants that were only an appearance special. Also, the BRZ has already had a lot of these "appearance only" variants with the One, Series.Blue, 2017 Series.Yellow. I do personally see the tS badging having more value.

Still, in each occasion with a low priced car, the main problem I always see with budget car special variants that really aren't that special is you will still have to pay the massive new car deprecation + all the associated secondary costs. Also, specifically with the BRZ, I have not seen any of the variants maintain value. The BRZ appears to floor out around 14k - 17k, depending on milage. Therefore, a good purchase price of a used BRZ, to me, is around 19 - 23k (lower milage being superior).

If I wanted to have a vehicle with value that an everyday man can buy and wanted to wait on the tS, I would buy a lightly used 4x4 truck at a bargain price and drive that for a few years. They lose little on depreciation, and then I would see how the market treated the cars I liked (I did this around 2010 selling the 06 SRR WRX I had waiting on c5z06 prices).

For the BRZ, I like talking and thinking about the tS. The downside is that it is an "appearance only" car. I could make the tS kinda make sense. It will be low volume. It is an actual STi branded car with some very obvious unique parts on it that to easily make it stand out and apparent about what it is. I think it will hold value OK and stop around 20k for decent milage (<100k).

Still, the engineering/practical brain tells me to buy a 2017 BRZ PP. The real business in the BRZ line was the BRZ performance pack for functionality updates. In 1-2 years at ~21k, buy one, take it to the track, and never look back.

The PP is the best buy/value I see for the BRZ market for the special variants offered. The tS *could* hold value for a while short term and then really long term, but in the end, it is just an "appearance only" car.

Ps. As a quick aside, the newer generation WRX and STIs pricing make no sense to me. The current WRX is almost going for what I bought my '05 STi for and the STIs are going for ESX prices from 2005. All that, and the power and the engine for the current STi is still the same and now costs as much as the ESX STi from 2005 without being a special variant? Go figure. (although the resale on STis are great!).

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by NeverInTime

[/CENTER]

The tS wing looks better in real life, though it will probably still be a bit too ricer for some people. The interior is mostly unchanged apart from the usual red STI start button, STI shifter knob (which just has a red insert on the top of the shifter), and red seat bolsters and stitching. The doors were locked, so I couldn't take any useful pictures of the interior. In the third picture you can barely make out the pink STI springs.

... snip ..

At least, for once, a stock BRZ will have some decent tires so comparison metrics will finally make some sense.

If there is anything, there is at least that.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by dowroa

At least, for once, a stock BRZ will have some decent tires so comparison metrics will finally make some sense.

If there is anything, there is at least that.

It is a complete car, not just tires. They had to check the rigidity, the suspension, revise the spring rates, check the stability on high speeds and so on. Can you make all these changes on a stock car? Of course you can, but the chances are that you'll not have the same result. It takes a lot of time, knowledge and money to reach the same level of completeness.

[dowroa]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is a complete car, not just tires. They had to check the rigidity, the suspension, revise the spring rates, check the stability on high speeds and so on. Can you make all these changes on a stock car? Of course you can, but the chances are that you'll not have the same result. It takes a lot of time, knowledge and money to reach the same level of completeness.

Do you have a source for what they changed? I would like to see a complete list, as I have not been able to find any information on the 2018 tS. I have found information about the 2015 tS JDM.

When "appearance only", I personally have issue as any well sorted autoX setup with good tires and wheels will out perform any OEM setup that is bound by governmental regulations.

Therefore, I don't see anything added in "appearance only" bringing anything to the table I can't immediately do better with tires, sway bars and camber (especially on MacPherson strut cars).

However, as to just OEM, you are right. I thought about it before I posted it, and factually you are right. Personally, however, the value add to me and my personal use-case is low.

Thanks.

[nikitopo]

Not yet, but the tS JDM cars were not "appearance only".

[DSOmegaX]

Has the STi springs but it doesn't look like it's dropped at all interestingly




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[dowroa]

Still running 215s. Weird.