Aftermarket Wheels - 17" or 16"?

[churchx]

TWS are forged and VERY light (10.63lbs 4.82kg, half the weight of stock wheels). Enkeis probably are much heavier. Price? I'm sure that during season team spends many many times more money then even those expensive forged wheels cost.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by churchx

DOT-R as "street"? With their wear rate isn't it getting a bit on expensive side, if driving normal daily driving distances? Also will they grip well if you won't get heat in them (if driving within legal limits)?

I tried RE71Rs on the 550hp FD, rears were to the treadwear indicators after 800 miles and one track day. Replaced with NT01s and I've done over 2000 street miles and four track days (2 at Mosport and 2 at Palmer MA), and now rears are at treadwear indicators. So for my usage the NT01s live longer...

They also have great grip even stone cold To tell the truth they behave like normal street tires on the street. But careful over standing water...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by James Russels

What would be the problem, if any, with going 17x8 with 245s? 8" wheel width is the low limit of what the 245mm width tires I'm looking at require.

It's not a problem, it's just that you won't get full use of 245s on an 8" wheel. It is possible that 225/45-17 would outhandle 245/40-17 on 8".

If you really want to fully utilize 245s, get 8.5" minimum, or 9", or even 9.5" wheels.

[James Russels]

Originally Posted by ZDan

It's not a problem, it's just that you won't get full use of 245s on an 8" wheel. It is possible that 225/45-17 would outhandle 245/40-17 on 8".

Could you please elaborate on how wheel width affects how much use one gets from a given tire width?

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by James Russels

What would be the problem, if any, with going 17x8 with 245s? 8" wheel width is the low limit of what the 245mm width tires I'm looking at require.

The only real thing you might notice would be less responsiveness from having a wider tire stuffed onto a smaller width wheel. If you're set on 245s, I'd go with a 9" wheel.

As for autox, you should come out and try it. Might change your motivations a bit. There's one on Sunday the 28th in Joliet with the Chicago Region SCCA group. I'll be out there, along with a good number of other Toyobaru guys.

Also, if you aren't already a member I'd recommend joining the Midwest 86 and Chi-Town 86 groups on FB. Best way to learn about track days, autox, rallyx, drift days, meets, and cruises that everyone in the area is going to.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by churchx

TWS are forged and VERY light (10.63lbs 4.82kg, half the weight of stock wheels). Enkeis probably are much heavier. Price? I'm sure that during season team spends many many times more money then even those expensive forged wheels cost.

Well, they don't sell them just to teams. I am just saying that the double cost is not justified. Construction method is important, but not the only important factor. Enkeis method is not inferior to the forged ones and they provided evidence many times. If all the teams/winners used only forged wheels, then I agree that it would be different.

[Shark_Bait88]

I'd argue that forged is worth the extra money, particularly with the weight savings you see with something like the TWS. However, it's only worth the money if the costs balance properly. For a lot of enthusiasts, they aren't likely going to spend the extra money on forged wheels like TWS. A strong cast wheel will suffice for most grassroots uses. Same for some lower budget racing teams, and sponsorships/contingency programs definitely play a role in that decision. However, if there's money in the budget for it, I'd always go for the forged option over a comparable cast.

[James Russels]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

The only real thing you might notice would be less responsiveness from having a wider tire stuffed onto a smaller width wheel. If you're set on 245s, I'd go with a 9" wheel.

And my understanding is that 225s are good for 8", but would be too narrow for FI...in what situations would I notice the difference (using 225s with a turbo)? I've read that 9" detracts from the feel of the car. This all may be so minor that it doesn't matter, but the main issue is that it's a significant financial investment, so I want to be sure I'm making the right choice.

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

As for autox, you should come out and try it. Might change your motivations a bit. There's one on Sunday the 28th in Joliet with the Chicago Region SCCA group. I'll be out there, along with a good number of other Toyobaru guys.

Also, if you aren't already a member I'd recommend joining the Midwest 86 and Chi-Town 86 groups on FB. Best way to learn about track days, autox, rallyx, drift days, meets, and cruises that everyone in the area is going to.

I actually won't be in town that weekend, but I will definitely join those Facebook groups so that I can go to an event if the opportunity arises. Thanks for the tip.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by James Russels

Could you please elaborate on how wheel width affects how much use one gets from a given tire width?

On a narrow wheel, the tire will be pinched a bit, will have a narrower contact patch, and will be able to roll/move around more under lateral load.

Same tire on a wider wheel will give more stability and provide a wider contact patch, won't roll over onto shoulder as readily at a given amount of negative camber.

Originally Posted by James Russels

And my understanding is that 225s are good for 8", but would be too narrow for FI...in what situations would I notice the difference (using 225s with a turbo)?

Tire make/model is going to be way way WAY more important for putting power down and handling than 225 vs. 245.

I've read that 9" detracts from the feel of the car.

I don't think that's accurate, a 245 on a 9" wheel should feel better (more responsive) vs. 245 on an 8" wheel. However a lighter-weight wheel/tire setup with 225s on 8" wheels should feel lighter-handling and maybe even more responsive up to a certain percentage of ultimate grip. But that ultimate grip will be lower vs. 245 on 9"...

This all may be so minor that it doesn't matter, but the main issue is that it's a significant financial investment, so I want to be sure I'm making the right choice.

IMO no right or wrong choice. You can certainly run 245s on 8" wheels, but you might enjoy the handling and feel of the car more with 225/8" or 245/9" over 245/8".

I wouldn't worry too too much about it though. Tire choice is WAY more important anyway.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by James Russels

And my understanding is that 225s are good for 8", but would be too narrow for FI...in what situations would I notice the difference (using 225s with a turbo)? I've read that 9" detracts from the feel of the car. This all may be so minor that it doesn't matter, but the main issue is that it's a significant financial investment, so I want to be sure I'm making the right choice.

9" with grippy 245s will change the feel of the car, but if you add the extra power through FI then it will be a good match.

ZDan is right about compound being more important, but 17x9s and 245s seem to be more preferential for FI cars. 17x8 with 225 seems to be the sweet spot for NA cars, at least that track.

As far as making the right choice, just do LOTS of research before making any purchases. There are plenty of guys in the Chicagloand area that'll be happy to give you rides so you can see how different setups feel.

[James Russels]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

9" with grippy 245s will change the feel of the car, but if you add the extra power through FI then it will be a good match.

ZDan is right about compound being more important, but 17x9s and 245s seem to be more preferential for FI cars. 17x8 with 225 seems to be the sweet spot for NA cars, at least that track.

As far as making the right choice, just do LOTS of research before making any purchases. There are plenty of guys in the Chicagloand area that'll be happy to give you rides so you can see how different setups feel.

Thanks. I found a post from someone who had 17x9 +45 RPF1s, and he said they rubbed the tie rod at full lock. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that they have these with a lower offset. If I still wanted to go this route, is my only option to get spacers? I read that with 9", +50 offset is flush, so without spacers, these wheels would already be sticking out 5mm, if I'm not mistaken.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by James Russels

Thanks. I found a post from someone who had 17x9 +45 RPF1s, and he said they rubbed the tie rod at full lock. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that they have these with a lower offset. If I still wanted to go this route, is my only option to get spacers? I read that with 9", +50 offset is flush, so without spacers, these wheels would already be sticking out 5mm, if I'm not mistaken.

If you have coilovers +45 RPF1s will fit, but won't clear BBKs. They do also make them in +35, just harder to find. Other good lightweight 17x9 options to look at would be 949Racing 6ULs and WedsSport TC105Ns

[Mach V Dan]

Originally Posted by churchx

Weren't gazoo racing series wheels 16x7 TWS-F66?

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

Not sure on the TWS-66F on the Gazoo car. All of the pictures of their car that I can see, and can remember, have it on 17s. Couldn't even find any pics with the TWS-66Fs, but of course I could just be missing it.

I saw this car at the TWS factory last year. 16x7" wheel.



--Dan
Mach V
FastWRX.com

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Mach V Dan

I saw this car at the TWS factory last year. 16x7" wheel.



--Dan
Mach V
FastWRX.com

Yeah, I found a webpage (linked in one of my previous posts) that detailed the specs for the series and noted 16x7.