why im glad the brz doesnt have a turbo.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by perryair

yes, the power is linear that way. is that appropriate enough for you?

Funny, if you run a properly sized turbo, you can have just as linear of power delivery as a supercharger.

But you can justify your answer however you see fit.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Funny, if you run a properly sized turbo, you can have just as linear of power delivery as a supercharger.

But you can justify your answer however you see fit.

and i will! but thanks for the permission.

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

I get what you mean but this is what I want to know.

if the car has torque dip at 3.5-5k rpm and mph goes up at a certain rate on stock motor. If I add a turbo will the rate of mph get worst or will it only get better with a small turbo

The torque dip in the 86 cars was put in in order to improve Economy. Adding a turbo will increase your top speed. It will also increase torque. As far as i understand it. Horsepower = Top Speed (how fast can you go), Torque = How quick can you get to your top speed. Generally adding a turbo also increases torque. A lot of people boost their cars less for the overall power and more for the torque that they get.

There are also ways around this like Tuning your car or adding aftermarket mods like Exhaust, headers, lighter wheels.

In the end its up to you what you want. I'm keeping my car engine stock and not boosting at all. From my own calculations and theory crafting i'm pretty sure i can hit the kind of torque and hp that would make me happy with other mods.

[turtlefeeder]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

The torque dip in the 86 cars was put in in order to improve Economy. Adding a turbo will increase your top speed. It will also increase torque. As far as i understand it. Horsepower = Top Speed (how fast can you go), Torque = How quick can you get to your top speed. Generally adding a turbo also increases torque. A lot of people boost their cars less for the overall power and more for the torque that they get.

There are also ways around this like Tuning your car or adding aftermarket mods like Exhaust, headers, lighter wheels.

In the end its up to you what you want. I'm keeping my car engine stock and not boosting at all. From my own calculations and theory crafting i'm pretty sure i can hit the kind of torque and hp that would make me happy with other mods.

good info, but I already got that. it still doesn't answer my question. how do I put this..

let's say in theory we have one frs/brz (call it car A) 200hp 2.0 and a frs/brz (car B) turbo charged

car A torque dips 3.5-5k rpm
now the question is would car B also get this torque dip and would that turbo help getting rid of that dip or will it still dip+turbo lag?

further more if the turbo cures the torque dip on car B would it just be replaced by turbo lag say. for example
if car B no longer has torque dip at 3.5-5k rpm but turbo now will it have turbo lag somewhere else In rpm range?

[Lantana frs]

Turbo size and kit design will factor in re powerband. Too many variables. My experience with an el header was very satisfying. When the torque dip is remedied the car is much more enjoyable imo.

[perryair]

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

good info, but I already got that. it still doesn't answer my question. how do I put this..

let's say in theory we have one frs/brz (call it car A) 200hp 2.0 and a frs/brz (car B) turbo charged

car A torque dips 3.5-5k rpm
now the question is would car B also get this torque dip and would that turbo help getting rid of that dip or will it still dip+turbo lag?

further more if the turbo cures the torque dip on car B would it just be replaced by turbo lag say. for example
if car B no longer has torque dip at 3.5-5k rpm but turbo now will it have turbo lag somewhere else In rpm range?

its not an apples to apples thing - every fi car has been tuned either from the fi manufacturer or from a tuner, and most of the dynos (you can look them up in the fi section) have shown that the dip is tuned out in one fashion or another, whether turbo or super.

and contrary to what some other people think - there is no turbo setup in a production car that has ever managed to have no lag or spooling at any throttle increment in all driving conditions. at least with today's technology its not possible even when you're bmw, mercedes, ford and others with "B"illions of dollars to throw around on R&D. turbo = lag however much its minimized with technology - you have to develop exhaust first in order to pump it back into the engine to develop vacuum and boost.

so there are two separate things youre talking about that have fairly little to do with each other.

[turtlefeeder]

Originally Posted by perryair

its not an apples to apples thing - every fi car has been tuned either from the fi manufacturer or from a tuner, and most of the dynos (you can look them up in the fi section) have shown that the dip is tuned out in one fashion or another, whether turbo or super.

and contrary to what some other people think - there is no turbo setup in a production car that has ever managed to have no lag or spooling at any throttle increment in all driving conditions. at least with today's technology its not possible even when you're bmw, mercedes, ford and others with "B"illions of dollars to throw around on R&D. turbo = lag however much its minimized with technology - your have to develop exhaust first in order to pump it back into the engine to develop vacuum and boost.

so there are two separate things youre talking about that have fairly little to do with each other.

Thanks for the explanation, so either you have lots or little lag in turbo, but having a turbo apply to a NA engine will rid of torque dip?

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

Thanks for the explanation, so either you have lots or little lag in turbo, but having a turbo apply to a NA engine will rid of torque dip?

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

It's not quite that black and white. Just having a turbo doesnt get rid of torque dip. You can very easily still have a torque dip while having a turbo.

Also Turbo lag and torque dip are two completley different things. Turbo lag is accompanied by just naturally how a turbo works.

Torque dip is more easily understood as less power during a certain RPM range. Like you will still get power and your car will still go forward. However compared to the push you get at either 2k RPM or 6k RPM there is a noticable change. Now theres technically no lag. Turbo lag you actually feel the car pause for a second before the turbo spools up and then you get a massive boost in power. That can happen at any RPM range.

What a tune to your ECU does is to flatten out the power band and give you a more linear power ratio as you climb up in RPMs. That way accelerating at 4k feels the same as accelerating at 2k.

As stated above the reason why the torque dip seems to disappear whenever someone boosts their car is due to the fact that not only do they have more power to play with (and torque) throught the powerband. They are also generally accompanied by a tune to your ECU in order to flatten it out a bit more.

So no, you dont NEED a turbo to get rid of torque dip. And one doesnt replace the other.

[fizzymike]

Turbo all day son... thats just me haha

[keithr]

Originally Posted by perryair

now a supercharger, thats a different story. if i can ever save up an extra 6k youd better believe id put a jackson racing or edelbrock sc on my whip..but thats a different post in a different section on a different day..

I have a JRSC with the Jackson tune. Been running it for over a year, and I can tell you, the power delivery is not as linear as the HP/Torque curves would lead you to believe. Don't get me wrong, the car feels like it has the power it was missing from the factory, but it's not "OEM smooth." Especially with the AC on, it's still a bit of a dog under 3k... so that power still isn't quite immediate. Maybe it would be a different feeling if I had an auto that downshifted more often than my lazy butt will do. Also, under constant light to moderate throttle the power delivery is a little "surgy."

It all comes down to individual preference. Some folks like the NA feeling, some folks love turbo surge. Some folks are ga-ga over the JRSC but I'm more luke warm on it.

Have much fun drivey drivey.

[turtlefeeder]

So.. technically you can have both torque dip and a big turbo lag depending on configuration, which I think would be called a shitty tune lol, but most of the t u next will try and distribute the power and torque in a more constant line evening out the rise and fall of torque during acceleration, tune also optimize FI base on type and size of FI kit. That sums it up?

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

[perryair]

Originally Posted by keithr

I have a JRSC with the Jackson tune. Been running it for over a year, and I can tell you, the power delivery is not as linear as the HP/Torque curves would lead you to believe. Don't get me wrong, the car feels like it has the power it was missing from the factory, but it's not "OEM smooth." Especially with the AC on, it's still a bit of a dog under 3k... so that power still isn't quite immediate. Maybe it would be a different feeling if I had an auto that downshifted more often than my lazy butt will do. Also, under constant light to moderate throttle the power delivery is a little "surgy."

It all comes down to individual preference. Some folks like the NA feeling, some folks love turbo surge. Some folks are ga-ga over the JRSC but I'm more luke warm on it.

Have much fun drivey drivey.

hey keith - i've always been super interested in that kit and its good to hear some driving impressions. does it feel more like a spooling when it gets up into the meat of the powerband or is it just that the power feels like you get more incrementally the higher up in the rpm range?

i've also been following the edelbrock - its carb compliant and also hasthe 'whipple' design, which supposedly helps more with down low grunt. maybe one day i can find two to ride along with back to back.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by keithr

It all comes down to individual preference. Some folks like the NA feeling, some folks love turbo surge. Some folks are ga-ga over the JRSC but I'm more luke warm on it.

Have much fun drivey drivey.

This is the first "eh" sounding comment regarding the JRSC I've seen on this forum and the kit is regarded as one of the best superchargers.

[Alltezza]

I didn't read the entire post but I'm glad it's not boosted from the factory because....well I like the fact that Subaru and Toyota left it up to US to decide on what it needs.

I love seeing different builds and seeing turbo and SC'd setups on our cars, it's a good variety and just leaves a lot of options for all of us. We all win. Some people LOVE the pure NA engine.

I just love having the options, as to what we can do to our cars.