How bad is E85 in freezing winter?

[kch]

Originally Posted by ben721364

Please provide a citation to support claim that engines burning E85 provide more power? What about fuel consumption? Manufacturing and distribution costs, ex subsidies? I am willing to be convinced?

It's true that E85 has less energy per oz than gasoline. However, its unique properties (knock resistance, cooling effect) mean you can tune the engine to produce more power. In particular, boosted motors do exceptionally well with E85.

I won't bother getting a citation because there are probably hundreds of cars just on this forum producing more power on E85 than 93. You can look for yourself.

Edit: literally 5 seconds of googling:

We did some testing on our turbocharged Toyota 86 and optimising the tune in the MoTeC M150 ECU netted an increase in power from the 198kW (265hp) the car made on pump gas to 267kW (358hp) at the rear wheels. Even with the high 12.5:1 compression of the FA20 engine, E85 allowed us to increase the boost from 7.0psi to 9.5 psi with no detonation. The only thing stopping us going further was the stock internals and a little mechanical sympathy.

http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/04/...about-ethanol/

[ben721364]

Originally Posted by kch

It's true that E85 has less energy per oz than gasoline. However, its unique properties (knock resistance, cooling effect) mean you can tune the engine to produce more power. In particular, boosted motors do exceptionally well with E85.

I won't bother getting a citation because there are probably hundreds of cars just on this forum producing more power on E85 than 93. You can look for yourself.

I said I am willing to be convinced...

[kch]

Originally Posted by ben721364

I said I am willing to be convinced...

So why not do some googling yourself?

The CCXR featured a highly modified CCX engine that ran on E85 as well as normal petrol in any mixture thanks to an advanced and Koenigsegg developed flex fuel system. When running the CCXR on petrol, the 4.7 liter twin-supercharged Koenigsegg engine delivers 806 Bhp. This already-impressive figure raised to an astonishing 1018 Bhp when the car ran on E85 Biofuel – again giving Koenigsegg the title as the world’s most powerful production car.

http://koenigsegg.com/ccxr/

Edit: this really has been discussed ad nauseam. E85 means you can run more boost, advance the timing, and produce more power without detonation. It also means roughly 33% increased fuel consumption. Generally, the price difference between E85 and 93 is offset by the increased consumption, so fuel cost is about the same overall.

[jasonojordan]

On my 02 wrx when I had it I was running 20psi on 93 and able to muster 265whp 240tq. I tuned it on e85 and went up to 24psi and the power jumped up to a even 320whp 320tq.

[ben721364]

Originally Posted by kch

So why not do some googling yourself?



http://koenigsegg.com/ccxr/

Edit: this really has been discussed ad nauseam. E85 means you can run more boost, advance the timing, and produce more power without detonation. It also means roughly 33% increased fuel consumption. Generally, the price difference between E85 and 93 is offset by the increased consumption, so fuel cost is about the same overall.

It was my understanding that he was talking about a stock engine.

[zmz0305]

Originally Posted by Guff

I've been running E85 year round in Illinois for a while and with a modified cold start injector pulse width, I can get the car to start first try in sub-30F weather. Granted, I rarely drive the car in those temperatures, but I haven't had any issues with starting. I have to do the occasional second try on some days, but most days the car starts right up.

Thanks man, that's very valuable info!

Saw your car at pizzahut yesterday

[zmz0305]

Originally Posted by ben721364

It was my understanding that he was talking about a stock engine.

I saw before there is a post by Shiv showing the E85 dyno result on stock engine. If I remembered correct it will be more than 10HP gain on E85 than 93. I don't remember which post it is but you could try search on forum.

[Tectoniic]

Originally Posted by zmz0305

I saw before there is a post by Shiv showing the E85 dyno result on stock engine. If I remembered correct it will be more than 10HP gain on E85 than 93. I don't remember which post it is but you could try search on forum.

I remember a while back as well that Delicious Tuning was able to get 200 or 201 WHP on a completely stock BRZ with an E85 tune. Granted this was a custom tune and probably quite aggressive but the ability to make power is pretty significant. I also didn't see their stock run to know if it was a relatively high or low dyno but if you figure that these cars seem to make anywhere from 156 to 176 whp stock on pump gas on dynos best case is almost a 33% power increase over stock for just switching fuel.

[zmz0305]

Originally Posted by Tectoniic

I remember a while back as well that Delicious Tuning was able to get 200 or 201 WHP on a completely stock BRZ with an E85 tune. Granted this was a custom tune and probably quite aggressive but the ability to make power is pretty significant. I also didn't see their stock run to know if it was a relatively high or low dyno but if you figure that these cars seem to make anywhere from 156 to 176 whp stock on pump gas on dynos best case is almost a 33% power increase over stock for just switching fuel.

I remembered it was 190ish on the E85 dyno chart and it is an old post. So I said more than 10HP because I don't really remember it. Anyway, it is free power that don't hurt anything, definitely worth a try.

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by ben721364

Please provide a citation to support claim that engines burning E85 provide more power? What about fuel consumption? Manufacturing and distribution costs, ex subsidies? I am willing to be convinced?

You've never seen a car run on e85 have you, look at dyno plots of the same car, same day, same dyno and observe the difference in hp/tq rating from both runs and you can come to your own conclusion (I can't spoon feed the information to you though as then you wouldn't learn as research is a very important part in retaining information... also im lazy)

[jasonojordan]

I have delicious on my brz. I have not dyno'd it to see exact gains 93 vs e85 and i do have aftermarket catback and a drop in panel filter but even so I can feel a difference in the way the car accelerates on e85 vs 93. Comes on a bit sooner and pulls just a bit harder for a bit longer then stock.

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by ben721364

It was my understanding that he was talking about a stock engine.

there's a reason why the most common bang for buck power mod is header+tune and e85 and why countless people are running their NA with headers and e85 and making great figures vs stock.

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by ben721364

Please provide a citation to support claim that engines burning E85 provide more power? What about fuel consumption? Manufacturing and distribution costs, ex subsidies? I am willing to be convinced?

you said you didn't see any benefits I have provided one, more power, others have provided the burns cooler also. That's 2 reasons you know of now. Whether they offset the negatives (production, etc.) is up to you but that wasn't what you asked.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

you said you didn't see any benefits I have provided one, more power, others have provided the burns cooler also. That's 2 reasons you know of now. Whether they offset the negatives (production, etc.) is up to you but that wasn't what you asked.

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

there's a reason why the most common bang for buck power mod is header+tune and e85 and why countless people are running their NA with headers and e85 and making great figures vs stock.

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

You've never seen a car run on e85 have you, look at dyno plots of the same car, same day, same dyno and observe the difference in hp/tq rating from both runs and you can come to your own conclusion (I can't spoon feed the information to you though as then you wouldn't learn as research is a very important part in retaining information... also im lazy)

Originally Posted by ben721364

It was my understanding that he was talking about a stock engine.

He was definitely not talking about stock, if you can't read or absolutely disbelieve e85 you can't help in this thread, I even posted tune edits for him. What fumanchu said is correct