Bought the car today! Quick questions

[CatScan]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

Someones angry.....

Not me. Where is your proof? I have merely subjective proof that applies to ME. Waiting on your objective proof that you say applies to all. Surely you have it.

[KR-S]

Dude, CatScan, relax. There's no reason you can't have a debate without acting civilized.

[CatScan]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

Dude, CatScan, relax. There's no reason you can't have a debate without acting civilized.

I'm full of Flexerill, and my knuckles drag. I thought I was relaxed. My statements have been mostly subjective, arguing against someone who claims to have objective proof. The dude who claims "always" or "never" is on the hook.

Added: If you mean the "stereotype" reference, they exist for a reason. My apologies if you fit. Let's carry on without that if we can.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by CatScan

I'm full of Flexerill, and my knuckles drag. I thought I was relaxed. My statements have been mostly subjective, arguing against someone who claims to have objective proof. The dude who claims "always" or "never" is on the hook.

Added: If you mean the "stereotype" reference, they exist for a reason. My apologies if you fit. Let's carry on without that if we can.

Well, I tried. I'm not in the mood for arguing, so whatever.

Besides, I don't even care about the stereotype in your post or if you think any less of people for a header choice.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Texas is too big a state to be able to say that. If you go up into the High Plains, you can find yourself out of gas in shitty little towns with nothing but an Alon station with 89 as the highest grade. The 89 will behave slightly better up there at that altitude, but they're really not high up enough to justify running the lower octane. If you come down from there with that stuff in your tank your performance will really turn to crap.

Also, not all 91 is created equal. Sunoco has apparently bought out all the Chevron stations between Odessa/Midland and the Rio Grande Valley, pulled the 93 and replaced it with Sunoco 91, which is mostly pig urine. Based on how it performs, I refuse to believe their 91 is any better than 89 at a good station. I have run 91 before with little effect, but that Sunoco crap made the car sluggish as hell.

I would rather run good 87 from a high turn over station then crappy 91 or 93 from some mom and pop place!
The only time I ever had any fuel issues was when I filled up on "93" from a little neighbourhood station. Thought the car was going to blow up for sure. Turns out their tank had not been filled in months and god only knows what the real octane level was.
I have had three tanks of 87 through mine (dealer, once when almost out and nothing higher for miles and once by accidently hitting the wrong button when too distracted by a short skirt) and could barely tell the difference for DDing.
Not sure how this is even still an argument since Cat has always been very clear that he means that 87 is OK in a pinch (which it is) and has never advocated using it all the time (which you should not).

[CatScan]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

Well, I tried. I'm not in the mood for arguing, so whatever.
Besides, I don't even care about the stereotype in your post or if you think any less of people for a header choice.

Nor do I.

Still waiting on objective proof.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

Dude, CatScan, relax. There's no reason you can't have a debate without acting civilized.

He does this in every thread that's why I stopped responding, I've done it before to prove him wrong look at his past threads him and RichardsFRS have an orgy of false knowledge sometimes

[jamescallowa]

Congrats ! Did you buy from the dealer ?

I'm looking for one but can't seem to find a good deal for them.

[CatScan]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

He does this in every thread that's why I stopped responding, I've done it before to prove him wrong look at his past threads him and RichardsFRS have an orgy of false knowledge sometimes

Still waiting on your objective facts.

[steve99]

Ok here is a ecu log from a Stock car running stock tune is South Africa.

Those guys only have 95 RON fuel (thats it nothing better), thats probably something like your 89 USA fuel.

Your 91 USA is about equal to our 98 RON but its difficult to compare directly

http://datazap.me/u/steve99/south-af...2-20-28&solo=2

log above is interactive so you can click parameters and zoom etc.

Note the IAM is 0.2 and its still getting knock corrections of -3 or so degrees.

This is getting near the ecu max ability to compensate for knock once IAM is at 0 then its only got up to -5 FLKC to compensate (already using -3 of that).
The IAM can only reduce knock according to the Knock correction MAX A table and the values vary from nothing ie 0 at low rpm low load to about 6 degrees at high rpm high loads.

The ECU also starts adding fuel (ie making open loop fueling slightly richer using the primary open loop enrichement values once the IAM falls below 1.

It will also eventually switch to the safe cam tables once IAM falls below about 0.4 (from memory)

So on 95 ron fuel its getting towards the limits of compensation on stock tune.

Tuned roms like OFT or most other tunes i have seen (naturally aspirated tunes) make extra power by leaning out the fueling especially over 4500 and adding timing advance.

Most tunes will lean the rich stock fueling from around 10.7 AFR to around 12 . they also add 3 to 5 degrees ignition timing.

The only difference between an OFT 93 and 91 tune is ignition timing is about 2 degrees less ignition timing above 5000 rpm.

The log above was from a stock car (you wont see the rich AFR as the o2 sensor in stock tune only reads to 12.16 AFR. but if you look at the OL fueling table you will see its targeting 10.9. (this is Commanded AFR)

Now with tuned roms the tuner expects your going to run good fuel or at least fuel with an octane rating equal to or better than what the tune requires. As to make the extra power they remove some of the safety margin built into the stock tunes.

Do all the cars in south africa blow up, no , but they were among the first cars to show the dI seal failure earlier on due knock and also due to an error in the initial stock tunes prior to A01x roms with transient ignition retard.

Can you run your stock or tuned car on 87 USA fuel, yes you can, will it immediately blow up no. But it looks like it would be at the limit of the ecu ability to manage knock safely.

If you drive sedately, light throttle below say 3500 rpm its probably going to be fine as the timing and fueling in that area is not much different between stock and tuned.

If you get stuck in a situation where you have to run low octane fuel, add a little as possible to your tank so your diluting your good fuel as little as possible and drive sedately below 3500 light throttle till you get better fuel in your tank.

If you beat on it at 7000 rpm at the track, well i dont know and im not going to try it.

do i think its a good practice to run 87 USA fuel NO, especially on tuned cars as they have less safety margin than stock tunes, except if you have specificly tuned the car for low octane fuel.

Excessive knock puts lots of strain on engine components, this damage may not be immediately obvious, but will likely shorten the life of the engine in the long term.

The old cast iron blocks used to transmit the "pinging" sound well and you could generally hear knock well, you dont hear knock on newer cars possibly due aluminium blocks and engine management systems and sound deadening in modern cars, and if you do hear knock its likely quite severe.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by CatScan

How odd that FRSBRZGT86FAN is liking these posts showing that the car will indeed run on less than optimal gas and not ass-plode yet pisses on me.

Since you quoted my post, I should make clear that I didn't run any of that Alon 89 shit through my BRZ's engine. Luckily I was in a rental. It made for a good fuel management lesson for when I took the BRZ out there on the next trip.

Unfortunately the next trip was when I encountered the Sunoco garbage 91. It made a definite difference in the way the car ran. Extremely sluggish, like being in limp mode. Gas mileage dropped from a normal of 29 mpg for me down to 21 while that shit was running through it. The difference was so pronounced that I was actually a little worried and filled up again with 93 before the tank was empty to try to bring up the octane. There was an immediate, noticeable improvement, even when mixed.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I would rather run good 87 from a high turn over station then crappy 91 or 93 from some mom and pop place!

The problem is that Sunoco is not a "mom and pop" place. It's a fairly major brand, albeit second tier. They have bought up a lot of the stations that used to be top tier out in bumfuck Texas and replaced the gas with hog pizzle. The station where I filled up was quite busy, so it's doubtful the stuff had been sitting in the tanks long enough to go stale.

[Wayno]

Originally Posted by CatScan

US and Australia use different rating methods, I'm sure you knew that FRSBRZGT86FAN. Or are you saying I'm correct?

Wot?

Jesus, i hope this is the last time i accidentally post in the jerkoff section.

[CatScan]

Still no objective data. Try harder.

[Ryan_86]

I always find 93 and run 93 in Houston where I live, Ill just keep the OFT in the car and flash to stock if I need to if I am on some trip out in the middle of no where and there is only 87, which will probably be never.