Preferred downshifting method?

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You think I am a new driver?

Answer the question, I don't give a shit about your driving history.

[ATaraxias]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not "over simplifying" anything. It is simple. Cars are built to up and down shift. This whole downshift is bad mentality is just an application of quasi physics with no real world impact at all. Do autos go into neutral when you slow down? No, they downshift. Why the hell would manuals not be the same? Yes, you are correct, they do not make them fool proof and if you fuck up you can damage things that does not mean that you can not do things right without fear of damage.

Some of us put our ATs into neutral while slowing down, because racecar.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

Answer the question, I don't give a shit about your driving history.

14 MT cars over 40 years. I have replaced one clutch ever and that was in a 40 year old 58 Ford so I will not take the blame for that.
Last 4 cars (a 91 Talon, 03 Lancer, 08 Lancer and 12 Lancer) all had 300+K on them when traded. Not one clutch issue, ever. Hell the Talon was an AWD TSI with almost 400K on it and the only reason it was retired was the body was rotted so bad. Original clutch still working great.
I have made my stand on downshifting very clear and I think my driving history is very relevant to this topic when you state I will be on my third when you are on your first.
Clutches (specific enough for you?) are meant to be used for up and down shifting. Used right and not abused they will last the life of a car. Downshifting PROPERLY is not abusing them.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

14 MT cars over 40 years. I have replaced one clutch ever and that was in a 40 year old 58 Ford so I will not take the blame for that.
Last 4 cars (a 91 Talon, 03 Lancer, 08 Lancer and 12 Lancer) all had 300+K on them when traded. Not one clutch issue, ever. Hell the Talon was an AWD TSI with almost 400K on it and the only reason it was retired was the body was rotted so bad. Original clutch still working great.
I have made my stand on downshifting very clear and I think my driving history is very relevant to this topic when you state I will be on my third when you are on your first.
Clutches (specific enough for you?) are meant to be used for up and down shifting. Used right and not abused they will last the life of a car. Downshifting PROPERLY is not abusing them.

Jesus Christ it's like pulling teeth. Yes or no to the question I posted.

Stop giving me the run around, it's a yes or no question.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

Jesus Christ it's like pulling teeth. Yes or no to the question I posted.

Stop giving me the run around, it's a yes or no question.

No offense but for a guy that accused me of not reading their posts you do not seem to have done much reading yourself.




I will type slow so you can grasp it.


No I do not think that down shifting causes "undue and unnecessary wear on the clutch".



Clear now?

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No offense but for a guy that accused me of not reading their posts you do not seem to have done much reading yourself.




I will type slow so you can grasp it.


No I do not think that down shifting causes "undue and unnecessary wear on the clutch".



Clear now?

That's not the question.

THIS is the question

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

So let me understand this properly. You truly believe that using rev match downshifting as your MAIN method for slowing the vehicle down, does not cause undue and unnecessary wear on the clutch[ in comparison to the person who only uses the friction material of their clutch, or hell even the throw out bearing, --and thus in turn by definition wears be it slightly or dramatically-- when getting the car to go in first, shifting up and the occasional downshift on a turn (assuming said person is not driving MT improperly) ?

Yes, or no. That's all I want to see in the post. Don't rephrase anything, just a yes or a no.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No offense but for a guy that accused me of not reading their posts you do not seem to have done much reading yourself.




I will type slow so you can grasp it.


No I do not think that down shifting as my MAIN method causes "undue and unnecessary wear on the clutch".



Clear now?

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

That's not the question.

THIS is the question

Better?


I give up.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Better?


I give up.

Thank you. I just wanted it on record for future generations who search this question and end up on this thread to have a good laugh.

have a good rest of the day!

Edit: In retrospect, people searching this question might not know the answer and thus might not get why it's so funny.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

So let me understand this properly. You truly believe that using rev match downshifting as your MAIN method for slowing the vehicle down, does not cause undue and unnecessary wear on the clutch in comparison to the person who only uses the friction material of their clutch, or hell even the throw out bearing, --and thus in turn by definition wears be it slightly or dramatically-- when getting the car to go in first.

I would argue - NO.
Properly downshifting does not cause any additional wear on the clutch friction material.


If you are lazy or unskilled, then yes.


Does it cause more wear on the throwout bearing? - yes but not as much as those that sit at red lights holding the clutch in.


That is almost the same question as: Does shifting without using the clutch cause friction material wear?

Originally Posted by justatroll

I would argue - NO.
Properly downshifting does not cause any additional wear on the clutch friction material.


If you are lazy or unskilled, then yes.


Does it cause more wear on the throwout bearing? - yes but not as much as those that sit at red lights holding the clutch in.


That is almost the same question as: Does shifting without using the clutch cause friction material wear?

Just throwing this out there, probably over 8 times out of 10 you are not getting the exact RPM on the rev match you are merely coming close to matching the speed of the transmission to the engine hence why the shift is smooth. Even if you're 100 RPM's over or under, you are still, by definition, wearing the clutch because it will still have to match speeds at the end of the shift. Have you reduced the wear in comparison to the person who just shifts into a lower gear without rev matching. ABSOLUTELY.

Adding a variable of use to an item in a car that is otherwise a consumable, be it a clutch (in some instances), brake pads etc. will wear it down faster than a person who does not add that variable.

It's very easy logic.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

Answer the question, I don't give a shit about your driving history.

Dude, you need to back off with the attitude.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

It's very easy logic.

And you are way overthinking it.


I downshift, heel toe, bounce off the rev limiter and generally drive my car.
It is a tool to be used, not an infant to be coddled.



I also do not worry about marring the impact surface of my hammer if I hit something "hard".

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Dude, you need to back off with the attitude.

You're not even my real dad.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

You're not even my real dad.

lol... ok, I can roll with that.