Brake upgrade order, go step by step or all in?

[Mr.ac]

Agreed. If you have zero plans for track or autox then upgrading lines and fluid is not worth it.
If you just want a better performance get better pads. And just follow with the schedule maintenance.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Are CL RC5+ comparable in price to Ferodo DS2500 in Europe? In North America, CL is approximately 2x the price of comparable hybrid pad (DS2500, AX6, R6, HC+800, W3, etc.)

DS2500: 159 Euro (178$)
CL RC5+: 189 Euro (211$)

How are the US prices of curiosity? Are the RC5+ worth an extra 33$ in your opinion?

Also, can I leave the rear brakes stock (apart from the braided lines)? Or will I run into bias problems?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Tor

DS2500: 159 Euro (178$)
CL RC5+: 189 Euro (211$)

How are the US prices of curiosity? Are the RC5+ worth an extra 33$ in your opinion?

Also, can I leave the rear brakes stock (apart from the braided lines)? Or will I run into bias problems?

For reference on similarly categorized pads and easier to obtain (prices are in USD): HC+800 = $134, W3 = $150, R6 = $150, AX6 = $158, R8 = $168, XP8 = $177.

We prefer to run a square pad in the rear on OEM brake setups. Sometimes we add a stronger or weaker compound in the rear depending on specific application.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by CSG David

For reference on similarly categorized pads and easier to obtain (prices are in USD): HC+800 = $134, W3 = $150, R6 = $150, AX6 = $158, R8 = $168, XP8 = $177.

Thanks, sounds like the general difference in consumer prices (expensive Europe). I think I will go with the RC5+.

We prefer to run a square pad in the rear on OEM brake setups. Sometimes we add a stronger or weaker compound in the rear depending on specific application.

Ok, I was a bit in doubt about that. Since CL doesn't make rear pads, I will probably change them for DS2500. They should be about the same µ or slightly less than the CL.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by cjd

Essex offers the CL pads... I'd guess they fit. It's possible the 5+ isn't available but the pad spec they use is very common so you should be able to verify.

Yes, but the last time i checked it wasn't clear that the RC5+ was made for the AP/Essex. RC6 and above are available.

Originally Posted by CSG David

While we can definitely make stock pads work for the track, they are definitely a setback when you're trying to do more than one lap at a time. We don't recommend that setup for various reasons, however, one thing we do like to point out is, we do enjoying hitting the same braking points consistently from lap to lap...so take that suggestion into consideration on how we setup cars.

RC5+ is a good hybrid pad, but they're so expensive in North America, it's almost better to just go for more boutique track pad. BBK pad selection do need to be setup accordingly. Some of our more skilled clientele do have to have the right pad setup to maximize their braking potential and consistency. We have had several Essex kits shipped overseas so if you have any questions, please let us know on how we can help. Also, I do believe we have several sets of RC6 on the shelf for the Sprint and Endurance kits. :thumbups:

Originally Posted by CSG David

I think we sold 3x RC5+ pads for the Essex kit and all have moved up to a full track pad. These include 999 (our favorite), DS1.11, XP12, RC8, etc.

Of course, what i meant is that the OP doesn't seem to need more than that.

The only reason for me to move into a BBK are long term costs and being able to make longer runs on track but i like the convenience of CL pads(no bedding in, designed to work well from low temps), specially the RC5+ which is pretty good all around and my 86 is both a DD and a tracktoy. RC6's are terrible for your wheels/bodypaint, and the noise is not for everyone.
That's why i was asking.

I'll be in touch with you guys when the time to replace my rotors comes, perfect excuse for one of those Sprint kits...

Originally Posted by Tor

DS2500: 159 Euro (178$)
CL RC5+: 189 Euro (211$)

How are the US prices of curiosity? Are the RC5+ worth an extra 33$ in your opinion?

Also, can I leave the rear brakes stock (apart from the braided lines)? Or will I run into bias problems?

I've seen RC5+ for around 150€ in a French online shop.

I haven't found any issues regarding brake bias, btw.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I've seen RC5+ for around 150€ in a French online shop.

I haven't found any issues regarding brake bias, btw.

Thanks. So you are running stock pads in the rear?

Do you remember which shop?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Iceman

I haven't found any issues regarding brake bias, btw.

Brake bias will only rear its head:

- over time as wear, when one axle is overworked compared to the other over a long period of time
- when the pedal dance is used to deactivate EBD.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Tor

Thanks, sounds like the general difference in consumer prices (expensive Europe). I think I will go with the RC5+.

Ok, I was a bit in doubt about that. Since CL doesn't make rear pads, I will probably change them for DS2500. They should be about the same µ or slightly less than the CL.

To be fair, CL pads are good pads, however, they are some of the noisiest pads we have toyed with...alongside Pagid and Ferodo. For our usage and for our clientele, RC5+ only works for the beginners and many, who thought these hybrid pads were sufficient, found that a tweak in their driving line increased their pace significantly, but also found their pads suddenly become a limiting factor for their pace. As always, use the right pad for the right application and having too much pad is better than not having enough.

Originally Posted by Iceman

Yes, but the last time i checked it wasn't clear that the RC5+ was made for the AP/Essex. RC6 and above are available.


Of course, what i meant is that the OP doesn't seem to need more than that.

The only reason for me to move into a BBK are long term costs and being able to make longer runs on track but i like the convenience of CL pads(no bedding in, designed to work well from low temps), specially the RC5+ which is pretty good all around and my 86 is both a DD and a tracktoy. RC6's are terrible for your wheels/bodypaint, and the noise is not for everyone.
That's why i was asking.

I'll be in touch with you guys when the time to replace my rotors comes, perfect excuse for one of those Sprint kits...


I've seen RC5+ for around 150€ in a French online shop.

I haven't found any issues regarding brake bias, btw.

As with any imported pads, the cost is higher and the inventory levels are more spotty.

The pads we generally recommend are relatively environmental friendly, good on paint finishes, have excellent brake modulation, nice breakaway qualities, excellent heat capacity, and excellent engineering support.

If you have questions moving forward to your brake pad setup, please let us know as we definitely spend a significant amount of time doing race consultation work and data collection/analysis.

Like @CSG Mike stated, while you don't notice brake bias issues now, it will be more apparent as you develop pace and practice different driving lines. You'll start to realize the limitations of certain pad setups. Any discussions going further than this is why people enjoy working with us.

[Tor]

Originally Posted by CSG David

To be fair, CL pads are good pads, however, they are some of the noisiest pads we have toyed with...alongside Pagid and Ferodo. For our usage and for our clientele, RC5+ only works for the beginners and many, who thought these hybrid pads were sufficient, found that a tweak in their driving line increased their pace significantly, but also found their pads suddenly become a limiting factor for their pace. As always, use the right pad for the right application and having too much pad is better than not having enough.

Thanks for the input. I should mention that I will be a trackday beginner. So maybe the RC5+ in the front would be a good starting point for me? Later on I might opt for the Tarox BBK (reasonably priced over here and with road legal approval/TÜV), so I don't want to invest too much in the stock setup. Pads, braided steel lines, fluid change and cooling was my idea.

P.s.
I don't mind some noise.

[fumanchu1]

shove a pair of bbk wilwoods in front? just saying... I'll show myself out now

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Tor

Thanks for the input. I should mention that I will be a trackday beginner. So maybe the RC5+ in the front would be a good starting point for me? Later on I might opt for the Tarox BBK (reasonably priced over here and with road legal approval/TÜV), so I don't want to invest too much in the stock setup. Pads, braided steel lines, fluid change and cooling was my idea.

P.s.
I don't mind some noise.

Try full track pads first before moving to BBK. GT86 OEM brake system is larger than the S2000 and many have had success running factory brake system with full track pads. The GT86 is also lighter as well so before upgrading brake systems, start with pads. Remember, not all BBKs are developed with the same level of scope.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by Tor

Thanks. So you are running stock pads in the rear?

Do you remember which shop?

There you go:

http://auriolracing.fr/toyota/5139-gt86-avant.html

[Tor]

Originally Posted by Iceman

There you go:

http://auriolracing.fr/toyota/5139-gt86-avant.html

Thanks. I found them already with google and sent them an email. They don't have them in stock and it's 3 weeks delivery. Shipping to Germany is 25 euro, I imagine the same to Spain. Probably better to source them locally even at a higher price, unless you need other stuff you can order there at the same time and don't mind the wait.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Tor

Thanks. I found them already with google and sent them an email. They don't have them in stock and it's 3 weeks delivery. Shipping to Germany is 25 euro, I imagine the same to Spain. Probably better to source them locally even at a higher price, unless you need other stuff you can order there at the same time and don't mind the wait.

May as well try some grade-A American brake pads. :P