follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 2nd Gens: GR86 and BRZ > GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86)

GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-19-2021, 01:28 PM   #225
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,704
Thanks: 2,128
Thanked 1,292 Times in 715 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blighty View Post
I love how you get a bunch of (genreally non owners) journalists talking about the 'peak torque 3000 rpm lower than the previous gen'

Not really a criticism, just funny. I mean the OG car almost had its peak before the dip - it was like 153 or something, so its not so much that the torque wasn't just as high initially, its just that it drop its guts for 1.5k revs.

Only a few journalists have correctly emphasised the torque curve being what is important.
In maths, this is called argmax(f(x)).
I was dealing with a math problem the other day and, until I realized it was the argmax, I was very confused by some properties of the problem I was seeing.
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
Blighty (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 02:05 PM   #226
Yoshoobaroo
TRACKBREAD
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,929
Thanks: 2,660
Thanked 4,024 Times in 1,895 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
GR86 first drive reviews thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
It feels the same as the 17+ cars IMO. The Zenki cars with the simple steering wheel had the best steering feel of the whole group I think. The GR86 is still good though, but definitely not a huge change.


Also, I saw somebody mention the knuckle; here are pictures I took of the front knuckle. Definitely aluminum. However, this car we were filming on was a pre-production prototype. I didn't check the cars we were driving.

Also, here's the rear suspension. The lower arms definitely seem like a thicker gauge steel than the previous combination arms. Which is good because the old LCA's often broke.

Wow so this actually suggests these are BRZs that were cosmetically modified to look like Toyota’s.

BRZ rear subframe
BRZ knuckles
BRZ sway bars if the blue marks don’t lie

Spring rates and damping are unknown though.
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post:
dragoontwo (08-19-2021), timurrrr (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 02:11 PM   #227
spike021
Senior Member
 
spike021's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Drives: '17 Limited BRZ CWP w/ PP
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 5,770
Thanks: 14,041
Thanked 6,466 Times in 3,205 Posts
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Hah. Matt may fit fine from his prospective, but it looks like me trying to stuff myself into one of those kid's plastic "flintstone" cars..
Still not as bad as a certain someone's Exige though!
__________________
Instagram: @spike.brz
Quote:
Originally Posted by humfrz View Post
It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
spike021 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to spike021 For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 02:13 PM   #228
DarkSunrise
Senior Member
 
DarkSunrise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Drives: 22 BRZ (Previously 13 FR-S)
Location: USA
Posts: 5,794
Thanks: 2,164
Thanked 4,242 Times in 2,220 Posts
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Hah. Matt may fit fine from his prospective, but it looks like me trying to stuff myself into one of those kid's plastic "flintstone" cars..
Haha yeah I get the feeling that at his size, he’s used to feeling cramped in sports cars so it’s relative to that. Should be better than a Miata, s2000, Elise, etc.
__________________
"Never run out of real estate, traction, and ideas at the same time."

2022 BRZ Build
2013 FR-S Build
DarkSunrise is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkSunrise For This Useful Post:
Dadhawk (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 02:17 PM   #229
dragoontwo
Senior Member
 
dragoontwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2020
Drives: 22 BRZ limited
Location: Clarksville TN
Posts: 1,181
Thanks: 216
Thanked 987 Times in 519 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Wow so this actually suggests these are BRZs that were cosmetically modified to look like Toyota’s.
I think what it means is that these cars were made, Toyota tested them and decided to make changes to the car. These cars were already made, so they'll loan them out as press cars and whatnot likely never to be sold to anybody.
dragoontwo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dragoontwo For This Useful Post:
Yoshoobaroo (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 02:32 PM   #230
kayen
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Drives: 2002 WRX w/ STi Spec C Swap
Location: Midwest
Posts: 72
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to kayen
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoontwo View Post
I think what it means is that these cars were made, Toyota tested them and decided to make changes to the car. These cars were already made, so they'll loan them out as press cars and whatnot likely never to be sold to anybody.

I think the big problem is though, Toyota made all these changes. Did a press driving day with a BRZ and not an actual GR86. If you ask me, what was the point of have a driving day, when the car that they are driving is not representative of the changes Toyota made.
kayen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to kayen For This Useful Post:
dragoontwo (08-19-2021), Pete (08-19-2021), timurrrr (08-19-2021), Yoshoobaroo (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 02:45 PM   #231
Yoshoobaroo
TRACKBREAD
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,929
Thanks: 2,660
Thanked 4,024 Times in 1,895 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
GR86 first drive reviews thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by kayen View Post
I think the big problem is though, Toyota made all these changes. Did a press driving day with a BRZ and not an actual GR86. If you ask me, what was the point of have a driving day, when the car that they are driving is not representative of the changes Toyota made.

Keep the buzz going. You can’t push the timetable 6 months to implement changes without throwing the Internet some new content, especially when the BRZ is sticking to the original schedule and they knew Nissan was revealing the Z around now. This event and the embargo date were very strategic.

I agree that it’s misleading, but I understand why they did it.

Nice to know the Subaru handles great though
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Yoshoobaroo For This Useful Post:
JesseG (08-19-2021), StE92ve (08-20-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 03:46 PM   #232
joro2
Senior Member
 
joro2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Drives: 2017 BRZ Premium MT (DGM)
Location: Hollywood FL
Posts: 123
Thanks: 262
Thanked 99 Times in 53 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
The Zenki cars with the simple steering wheel had the best steering feel of the whole group I think.
Other than the buttons on the wheel does the “kouki” (‘17+ gen1) have a (noticeably) different steering setup?
Never driven a ‘12-16, however I don’t recall reading the steering itself was (significantly) changed for ‘17+?
joro2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 03:58 PM   #233
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,704
Thanks: 2,128
Thanked 1,292 Times in 715 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayen View Post
I think the big problem is though, Toyota made all these changes. Did a press driving day with a BRZ and not an actual GR86. If you ask me, what was the point of have a driving day, when the car that they are driving is not representative of the changes Toyota made.
An alternative explanation:
All the changes we saw in the technical overviews on the June 8th event in Japan were JDM-only,
and the US market GR 86s will in fact have aluminum front knuckles and chassis-mounted rear ARB.
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
dragoontwo (08-19-2021), Yoshoobaroo (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 05:08 PM   #234
Guff
Now w/ over 400 womprats!
 
Guff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: BRZ LZR
Location: Texas/Illinois
Posts: 4,785
Thanks: 10,452
Thanked 3,420 Times in 1,424 Posts
Mentioned: 301 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Keep the buzz going. You can’t push the timetable 6 months to implement changes without throwing the Internet some new content, especially when the BRZ is sticking to the original schedule and they knew Nissan was revealing the Z around now. This event and the embargo date were very strategic.

I agree that it’s misleading, but I understand why they did it.

Nice to know the Subaru handles great though
To further confuse this idea, it is possible that the photos I am showing you are not indicative of the cars we were driving.

The photos I posted were specifically of the one stationary car they had on display. They specifically told us that this car was not close to production and was just there for static display imagery.

This car seemed mostly put together however the doors were locked and the body panels were slightly off. The car was also wrapped, not painted, indicating that this was not originally the red color. It seemed to be black underneath.

It's possible that this was a converted BRZ (or early 86 prototype) that they "borrowed" to have another display car, but the GR86s we were driving were full US production spec.

I didn't take note of the rear subframe discrepancy at the time, but the front aluminum knuckles did surprise me. Sadly, not enough for me to want to take a peek under one of the driving cars.

The vast majority of the stationary shots you see in reviews online are with this prototype vehicle.

The curious thing about this event was the fact that there were not that many GR86s for us to drive. They told us they simply couldn't produce enough of them due to time constraints. I'm thinking perhaps these last-minute development changes are related to that. But I'm not certain.


Edit: Taking a look through the Press Kit, which includes photos of the very cars we drove, I have found a few photos that may be revealing.









__________________
"Sweet Subaru, sweet Subaru, send your BRZ unto me, for the roads of the unworthy must be baptized in speed and glory."
- The Ancient BRZ Sacrament
by Zaku

Last edited by Guff; 08-19-2021 at 05:24 PM.
Guff is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Guff For This Useful Post:
JonAvalon (08-19-2021), Ohio Enthusiast (08-19-2021), Pete (08-19-2021), RZNT4R (08-20-2021), spike021 (08-19-2021), StE92ve (08-20-2021), timurrrr (08-19-2021), weederr33 (08-19-2021), Yoshoobaroo (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 05:45 PM   #235
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: 2022 GR86
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 1,704
Thanks: 2,128
Thanked 1,292 Times in 715 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
Edit: Taking a look through the Press Kit, which includes photos of the very cars we drove, I have found a few photos that may be revealing.
These photos show parts that should be only on a GR 86: iron knuckles, and rear-facing subframe-mounted ARB brackets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
To further confuse this idea, it is possible that the photos I am showing you are not indicative of the cars we were driving.

The photos I posted were specifically of the one stationary car they had on display. They specifically told us that this car was not close to production and was just there for static display imagery.

...

It's possible that this was a converted BRZ (or early 86 prototype) that they "borrowed" to have another display car, but the GR86s we were driving were full US production spec.

I didn't take note of the rear subframe discrepancy at the time, but the front aluminum knuckles did surprise me. Sadly, not enough for me to want to take a peek under one of the driving cars.

The vast majority of the stationary shots you see in reviews online are with this prototype vehicle.
Case closed?
And perhaps they shouldn't have put a mechanical BRZ there for everyone to take detailed pictures
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
alphasaur (08-20-2021), Yoshoobaroo (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 06:01 PM   #236
Yoshoobaroo
TRACKBREAD
 
Yoshoobaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 2013 BRZ
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,929
Thanks: 2,660
Thanked 4,024 Times in 1,895 Posts
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Well it would be a pretty big screwup if the press kit has pics of BRZ parts in it.

@ so those pictures showing the white car on a lift are from a car that was driven at the event?
Yoshoobaroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2021, 06:54 PM   #237
Ohio Enthusiast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Drives: 2018 BRZ
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 880
Thanks: 1,352
Thanked 750 Times in 422 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Now that we're fairly certain that the cars actually were GR86 spec and not disguised BRZs, did anyone notice any mention of extreme oversteer or hard to control slides in any review? The closest I remember is Throttle House's mention of unpredictability and "4 wheel drift" but they attributed that to the Pilot 4 tires. Could that have been the toe changes in the rear as reported in the Japanese tests?
Ohio Enthusiast is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ohio Enthusiast For This Useful Post:
Pete (08-19-2021)
Old 08-19-2021, 07:52 PM   #238
Guff
Now w/ over 400 womprats!
 
Guff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: BRZ LZR
Location: Texas/Illinois
Posts: 4,785
Thanks: 10,452
Thanked 3,420 Times in 1,424 Posts
Mentioned: 301 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo View Post
Well it would be a pretty big screwup if the press kit has pics of BRZ parts in it.

@ so those pictures showing the white car on a lift are from a car that was driven at the event?
Yep, those pictures are from the garages at Monticello Raceway. I believe that car is VIN# JF1MSHZN9U4000057, which was a Halo White Premium that we drove on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio Enthusiast View Post
Now that we're fairly certain that the cars actually were GR86 spec and not disguised BRZs, did anyone notice any mention of extreme oversteer or hard to control slides in any review? The closest I remember is Throttle House's mention of unpredictability and "4 wheel drift" but they attributed that to the Pilot 4 tires. Could that have been the toe changes in the rear as reported in the Japanese tests?
The car felt progressive at the limit, just like the first gen. Monticello raceway had plenty of off-camber and elevation changes and the car was predictable as expected through the rear suspension travel.

I drove both the base and the premium on the different tire setups and the Primacies were as slidey as they were on the old car. Pilot 4's on the Premium suited the car very well for my driving style, plenty of grip but easy to rotate the rear on throttle when you're at the limit.

On the bumpy NY backroads it very much just felt like I was driving my BRZ. The balance is basically unchanged from what I felt. No wacky toe-out on compression like an S2k or anything, at least in the few hours I got with the car.
__________________
"Sweet Subaru, sweet Subaru, send your BRZ unto me, for the roads of the unworthy must be baptized in speed and glory."
- The Ancient BRZ Sacrament
by Zaku
Guff is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Guff For This Useful Post:
Bobharp (08-20-2021), DAEMANO (08-19-2021), Ohio Enthusiast (08-19-2021), Pete (08-19-2021), timurrrr (08-19-2021), Yoshoobaroo (08-19-2021)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GR86 In R7 of the Toyota Gazoo Racing GT Cup + GR86 coming to Grand Turismo Sport Blighty GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) 37 07-18-2021 03:38 PM
Real World MPG Be-Are-Zee BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics 302 07-13-2014 03:06 PM
Full Report: Road & Track tests stickier FR-S/BRZ tires poormans_LFA Wheels | Tires | Spacers | Hub -- Sponsored by The Tire Rack 74 08-15-2013 01:10 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.