Smashed 2022 BRZ

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Good to know, I didn't realize it only covered a total loss.

Well, at least in the U.S., your regular insurance is supposed to cover both the cost of repairs and diminished value from the crash. But its hard to prove the diminished value and even harder to get.

What's funny about gap insurance (the difference between what you owe and what the car is worth) is that you should probably NEVER, EVER buy it (especially in the current used car climate). Specifically, given that new cars are worth more than they cost most of the time and even cars that are 1 or 2 years old are worth close to what you bought them for, there simply is no need for gap insurance because it is very unlikely that a "gap" will ever exist.

Furthermore, how many people here are financing almost the entirety of their cars??? Almost everybody has, at least, a trade-in worth at least 5 - 10k that they roll into their down payment. In other words, if you financed every dime of this car because you had to, you probably shouldn't be buying it in the first place.

BTW - I bet insurance companies are still selling it for about what they used to and stupid people that ROUTINELY over-insure for things they actually should be self-insuring for regularly pay it thinking they are being safe and SMART. Uh, no... Those insurance companies are laughing themselves all the way to the bank.

[CincyJohn]

BTW, on the subject of insurance, I heard a funny story yesterday from a guy who was admiring my car while it was getting tinted. He said he just lost his 2003 S2k. He had some work done and he was driving it and he lost a cylinder and, having to get home, he drove it harder until the engine blew and caught on fire. He then said he got a good insurance settlement given the current resale values for S2ks. He claimed he was driving it hard because he knew the engine was done and he wanted it to catch on fire. Whether that is true or not, I don't know. But it was smart (even if only by accident).

To be clear, I am not advocating insurance fraud. However, if you blow your engine while out of warranty, it wouldn't hurt to be so surprised that you accidentally swerve and total it at the same time (but be very careful when you "accidentally" crash).

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Specifically, given that new cars are worth more than they cost most of the time and even cars that are 1 or 2 years old are worth close to what you bought them for, there simply is no need for gap insurance because it is very unlikely that a "gap" will ever exist.

This is just patently not true. It's only been this way for approx the last 18 months because of supply chain issues.

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Furthermore, how many people here are financing almost the entirety of their cars??? Almost everybody has, at least, a trade-in worth at least 5 - 10k that they roll into their down payment. In other words, if you financed every dime of this car because you had to, you probably shouldn't be buying it in the first place.

Again, not true. This is why you're seeing people use 84 month loans to purchase cars that carry higher rates.

"Currently, however, less than half of U.S. households — about 4 in 10 — are able to cover an unexpected $1,000 expense like a car repair or medical bill, a recent Bankrate survey found."

"Moreover, a significant number of auto loans nowadays come with negative equity from the outset. Almost half—46 percent—of the loans in the data we reviewed were underwater; that is, people owed more on the car—$3,700 on average—than what the vehicle was worth."

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...s-a8076436935/

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

BTW - I bet insurance companies are still selling it for about what they used to and stupid people that ROUTINELY over-insure for things they actually should be self-insuring for regularly pay it thinking they are being safe and SMART. Uh, no... Those insurance companies are laughing themselves all the way to the bank.

Self-insuring? You realize most people don't have the money to do that, right? I carry 50/100/50 on our vehicle, and even though Oklahoma only requires a $75k bond.......I don't have that laying around to do so.

There also the part where some states require you to have as many 25 cars in your name to self-insure.

https://www.motor1.com/reviews/40696...elf-insurance/

[series.trackday]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

...Self-insuring? You realize most people don't have the money to do that, right? I carry 50/100/50 on our vehicle, and even though Oklahoma only requires a $75k bond.......I don't have that laying around to do so. ...

When anyone brings up self-insuring, including the other poster earlier in the thread, I get the idea they're either so wealthy that their opinion about money almost doesn't matter for regular folks, or borderline conspiracy-theory "all
insurance is a scam, laws are meant to be bent, they're all out to get you".

Then CincyJohn straight-up related a story of insurance fraud as through it was a good thing and recommended others should do it and it firmly put him in the second category.

No real point in trying to educate him on the points your brought up as being blatantly false, but hopefully someone else won't come along and read his BS without reading your rebuttal.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

This is just patently not true. It's only been this way for approx the last 18 months because of supply chain issues.



Again, not true. This is why you're seeing people use 84 month loans to purchase cars that carry higher rates.

"Currently, however, less than half of U.S. households — about 4 in 10 — are able to cover an unexpected $1,000 expense like a car repair or medical bill, a recent Bankrate survey found."

"Moreover, a significant number of auto loans nowadays come with negative equity from the outset. Almost half—46 percent—of the loans in the data we reviewed were underwater; that is, people owed more on the car—$3,700 on average—than what the vehicle was worth."

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...s-a8076436935/



Self-insuring? You realize most people don't have the money to do that, right? I carry 50/100/50 on our vehicle, and even though Oklahoma only requires a $75k bond.......I don't have that laying around to do so.

There also the part where some states require you to have as many 25 cars in your name to self-insure.

https://www.motor1.com/reviews/40696...elf-insurance/

Nice selective quoting there by leaving out "in the current climate."

In any event, yes - if you had to scrape up every penny you had to put $1,000 down and get an 84 month loan at 5%, by all means, spend that extra on gap insurance.

Of course, you TOTALLY IGNORED the fact that if you bought this car today at MSRP and you total it a year from now (or tomorrow) gap insurance wouldn't pay you a FREAKIN DIME since there would be no "gap."

[series.trackday]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Nice selective quoting there by leaving out "in the current climate."

In any event, yes - if you had to scrape up every penny you had to put $1,000 down and get an 84 month loan at 5%, by all means, spend that extra on gap insurance.

Of course, you TOTALLY IGNORED the fact that if you bought this car today at MSRP and you total it a year from now (or tomorrow) gap insurance wouldn't pay you a FREAKIN DIME since there would be no "gap."

If you buy a car at MSRP today with $1000 down and an 84 month loan, then there's going to be a gap until the day it's paid off. You'll be paying the note down slower than the car depreciates.

Also: You can cancel gap coverage at any time. So if you get the note lower than the insurance value, just cancel it.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by series.trackday

If you buy a car at MSRP today with $1000 down and an 84 month loan, then there's going to be a gap until the day it's paid off. You'll be paying the note down slower than the car depreciates.

Also: You can cancel gap coverage at any time. So if you get the note lower than the insurance value, just cancel it.

Happy to discuss actual math - but if you buy a GR86/BRZ at MSRP with an 84 month loan today, you will have zero gap the day you walk out (if you believe the thread about the flooded BRZ where he just got 41k for his 5000 mile, 6 month old totaled car). Explain to me when, given the current climate, that that gap will exist. As another example, I just sold my 1.5 year old BRZ with 32,000 miles on it for $500 less than sticker. Obviously, if I financed every penny, I never had a "gap."

Second, if a gap does exist, it will be a LOT smaller than it would have been in years past.

Third, what are the chances you total the car? What are you paying for the gap insurance? Keep in mind that, in the current climate, the chance that your car gets totaled are a LOT smaller than they used to be.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Nice selective quoting there by leaving out "in the current climate."

In any event, yes - if you had to scrape up every penny you had to put $1,000 down and get an 84 month loan at 5%, by all means, spend that extra on gap insurance.

Of course, you TOTALLY IGNORED the fact that if you bought this car today at MSRP and you total it a year from now (or tomorrow) gap insurance wouldn't pay you a FREAKIN DIME since there would be no "gap."

I'm so sorry I left that part out and that seems to be all you can focus on.

Why would you put money down on a 5% loan when inflation is approaching 10%? And in a few years if rates come down back down, basically every decent credit union will refinance the car at the lower rate with no fees or additional costs.


There is no guarantee that the valuation will still be that high in 12-24 months from now, especially if we dip into a recession. GDP shrank last month and some big companies are already laying off workers. Then if it doesn't by the time you've paid the loan down to the point you have equity, you can cancel the GAP and get a pro-rated refund.


Of course, you TOTALLY IGNORED all the information I provided about self-insuring and how it's really not feasible for the vast majority of the population.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'm so sorry I left that part out and that seems to be all you can focus on.

Why would you put money down on a 5% loan when inflation is approaching 10%? And in a few years if rates come down back down, basically every decent credit union will refinance the car at the lower rate with no fees or additional costs.


There is no guarantee that the valuation will still be that high in 12-24 months from now, especially if we dip into a recession. GDP shrank last month and some big companies are already laying off workers. Then if it doesn't by the time you've paid the loan down to the point you have equity, you can cancel the GAP and get a pro-rated refund.


Of course, you TOTALLY IGNORED all the information I provided about self-insuring and how it's really not feasible for the vast majority of the population.

Hey provide some numbers and prove me wrong. As I said above, explain to me how a gap would ever exist today if insurance companies are paying 41k for a 6 month old totaled GR86 with 5k miles. You say people can’t afford to go without gap insurance and I say that if money is so dear for those people then the last thing they should be pissing it away on is insuring a risk that doesn’t exist. Of course, if you are an insurance agent, you LOVE people who are willing to piss away money on nonexistent risks.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I'm so sorry I left that part out and that seems to be all you can focus on.

Why would you put money down on a 5% loan when inflation is approaching 10%? And in a few years if rates come down back down, basically every decent credit union will refinance the car at the lower rate with no fees or additional costs.


There is no guarantee that the valuation will still be that high in 12-24 months from now, especially if we dip into a recession. GDP shrank last month and some big companies are already laying off workers. Then if it doesn't by the time you've paid the loan down to the point you have equity, you can cancel the GAP and get a pro-rated refund.


Of course, you TOTALLY IGNORED all the information I provided about self-insuring and how it's really not feasible for the vast majority of the population.

The whole idea of “self” or under insuring is a fools game in the modern world where prices and values can and do change on an almost daily basis.
There is not a hope I would finance a new car without Gap. Sure today it is worth more but next week I could lose thousands. How much are people pa ting for gap anyway? I know that it cost me $80 to have gap. Not $80 a month or year just $80. People will spend thousands of dollar to change a header and gain 5hp but gap casts to much?
Under or self insured is simply moronic at any time. There have been a hundred or more threads on this forum alone where someone with insufficient insurance showed up begging for help and blaming everyone but themselves lives for their situation. Sure it sucks to pay some company all that cash if you never need it but then when you do at least it is there.

Oh and Cincy is very very good at ignoring what he doesn’t like and focusing on some minor out of context point.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Hey provide some numbers and prove me wrong. As I said above, explain to me how a gap would ever exist today if insurance companies are paying 41k for a 6 month old totaled GR86 with 5k miles. You say people can’t afford to go without gap insurance and I say that if money is so dear for those people then the last thing they should be pissing it away on is insuring a risk that doesn’t exist. Of course, if you are an insurance agent, you LOVE people who are willing to piss away money on nonexistent risks.

Where did I say someone can't afford to go with out it?

I said, there is no guarantee that the values will still be this high over MSRP or the residuals in 12-24 months.

You crack me up, you say I intentionally misquoted you, so you're response is to ignore everything you said that I showed you was incorrect and then make things up.

You're great dude. Keep it up. You're a great source of entertainment.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The whole idea of “self” or under insuring is a fools game in the modern world where prices and values can and do change on an almost daily basis.
There is not a hope I would finance a new car without Gap. Sure today it is worth more but next week I could lose thousands. How much are people pa ting for gap anyway? I know that it cost me $80 to have gap. Not $80 a month or year just $80. People will spend thousands of dollar to change a header and gain 5hp but gap casts to much?
Under or self insured is simply moronic at any time. There have been a hundred or more threads on this forum alone where someone with insufficient insurance showed up begging for help and blaming everyone but themselves lives for their situation. Sure it sucks to pay some company all that cash if you never need it but then when you do at least it is there.

To be fair, there are cases where self-insuring can make sense based on the price of the bond vs the cost of insurance, like fleet operators for instance. But for an individual car, those people make/have the kind of money they aren't buying a twin.

But it's still a huge gamble, because if something does happen you're still responsible for the entirety of the bond vs insurance being your deductible.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Oh and Cincy is very very good at ignoring what he doesn’t like and focusing on some minor out of context point.

Yeah, that's pretty clear. I don't know why I bother engaging him when I should be looking for intake and charcoal filter dynos on YouTube.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

To be fair, there are cases where self-insuring can make sense based on the price of the bond vs the cost of insurance, like fleet operators for instance. But for an individual car, those people make/have the kind of money they aren't buying a twin.

But it's still a huge gamble, because if something does happen you're still responsible for the entirety of the bond vs insurance being your deductible.



Yeah, that's pretty clear. I don't know why I bother engaging him when I should be looking for intake and charcoal filter dynos on YouTube.

That is why I put quotation marks around self. What many people think of as self insured means they just want to pay out of pocket. Not the same as a business that posts a bond to cover any costs.

[villainous_frx]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

A quick search (I didn't deep dive) shows that there really is nothing out there now! If there is it is very hidden.

It's super hidden and they rarely want anything to do with a car worth less than 6 figures. Unfortunate to hear that you used to be able to sign up at the track and it has gone away :/.

The OpenTrack option mentioned above has a "Get a Quote" button, and it leads me back to square one for that they're only covering US Residents who go to Canada, not Canadian residents. Also a minimum $30,000 USD value on my car is uh... generous to say the least. Though the sentimental value cannot be put on paper by any insurance.